David St. Louis and his “Sweeney Todd” Epiphanies

Women in musicals traditionally have the gargantuan roles that are considered so challenging that the opportunity to do them usually marks a turning point in their career. Think Mama Rose in Gypsy or Aurora in Kiss of the Spider Woman or perhaps Effie in Dreamgirls. For men, there aren’t that many roles that fall into the same category. But certainly one that does is the title role in Stephen Sondheim’s Sweeney Todd: The Demon Barber of Fleet Street. For the current production  at South Coast Repertory in Costa Mesa, David St. Louis gets to play the wronged-barber for the second time in his career.

St. Louis played Sweeney at Playmakers Repertory Company in Chapel Hill, North Carolina. For those unfamiliar with the show, Sweeney Todd (née Benjamin Barker) was sent away by Judge Turpin (Robert Mammana) on trumped up charges so the Judge could take advantage of Barker’s wife, Lucy, and his young daughter, Johanna (Juliana Hansen.) When he escapes from prison and finds his way back to London, he sets up a new tonsorial parlor above a meat pie shop run by Mrs. Lovett (Jamey Hood). She recognizes Barker and the two conspire to exact revenge on Turpin. This production is directed by Kent Nicholson.

Amongst St. Louis’ Broadway credits are Harry Potter and the Cursed Child and revivals of Side Show (2014-2015) and Jesus Christ Superstar (2000).

I spoke with him just before a rehearsal at South Coast Rep recently. We discussed his being cast in the show, the humor in this production and the monster song in Act I that is Epiphany.

When and how were you first exposed to Sweeney Todd?

Oh my goodness…sometime in high school. My school wanted to do it. I don’t think the parents agreed with that at the time. We never actually got it done. Once I got to do it for the first time as an adult it brought things full circle.

Do you remember thinking, “wow, this is a role I’d like to do?”

Yes, but at the time I was a tenor. So Anthony [the sailor who finds Todd and helps him return to London] was the only thing I could think about. But then my voice dropped to the basement.

The role has traditionally been played by white actors. Did you think at that time the opportunity to do so would ever happen?

It’s a new day. Ask me that ten years ago and I would have said ‘no.’ But the world is slowly changing. Norm Lewis got to do Javier in Les Misérables. He broke a bit of a barrier there for us. A role like Sweeney Todd, when you look at how he was treated, the social injustice, those are things that are relevant today. It made sense to me that this was a role that a black man could play and people would understand.

[It should be noted that Norm Lewis also played Sweeney Todd in an off-Broadway production in 2017.]

Len Cariou, who originated the role, was shocked when he first read Sweeney Todd. What is it about this role that makes it for men what Mama Rose, arguably, is for women?

I’ll tell you why it is hard. It’s easy to brood through the whole thing and it’s kind of written that way with a few moments like “A Little Priest” where he’s allowed to laugh and show something else. It’s hard to let him stop and smell the roses. Finding those detours and places to make him a rounder character to the role, it’s hard that way.

My personal favorite moment in the show, and perhaps the most shocking, is “Epiphany” when Sweeney challenges and confronts not just the characters, but also the audience. How do you approach a song like that?

“Epiphany” is best thought of as a monologue and not a song. It’s full-on Shakespeare in a way with direct address to the audience at times. He finally lets loose in that song. He’s not brooding and holding it. He’s spewing. If you treat is as a monologue – there are notes written in the middle of the song that are usually spoken and not sung, “How about a shave. Come and visit your good friend Sweeney.”

(This video, though not of great quality, allows Sondheim to explain the construct of the song in his own words.)

That song is perhaps the darkest in the show. Some productions tread lightly on the humor in the show. What approach does this production take with humor?

When I played the role before I got to explore that dark “this is what you pushed me into” and “this is who you’ve turned me into” side of it – which is still played up here. You get to see a lot more of the comedy that’s written into the score and the libretto. We lightened it up a little bit. There’s so much comedy that almost gets wasted a lot for trying to pay attention to the darkness and trying to give a sense of gravitas to the script that already has it. There are so many other things that normally get glossed over that I didn’t realize were glossed over until this production.

How much of Sweeney’s humanity is required for the show to land properly?

If you cannot relate to Sweeney – which ties to why I think it’s more relevant in today’s society to have a black man play this role – if you cannot relate to a person who has been abused by society, a person who has been turned into this thing by a justice system that took his life away and made him suffer for it – you don’t have a reason to care about Sweeney. He made a choice, but it’s a choice everyone should be able to relate to.

In his book discussing his lyrics, Sondheim said “A folktale without a moral is merely whimsy.” What’s the moral of Sweeney Todd?

If you don’t walk away thinking where do I fit in? Am I the person that is causing this pain? Am I the person caught in the revenge and needing to exact some type of revenge? Am I the person who watches it and allows it to happen? Where am I culpable? I don’t know of any other musical that explores the darkness of humanity in the way that Sweeney Todd does. This is the epitome of what a dark comedy is and should be. It touches all the notes, rings all the bells that I don’t think anything else has.

Sweeney Todd continues at South Coast Rep through February 16th.

Photos by Jordan Kubat/SCR