THIS IS THE TWELFTH AND LAST OF OUR BEST OF 23 REVIEW OF INTERVIEWS: There aren’t too many actors who have appeared in productions of West Side Story, A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum, Follies and A Little Night Music. Not many can also hold the distinction of originating a role in Company. One person who has done all five shows is Tony Award-winner Donna McKechnie.

She was the original Kathy in Company – one of the trio of women who sing “You Could Drive a Person Crazy.” As for her Tony Award, she originated the role of Cassie in A Chorus Line.

Company was, of course, written by Stephen Sondheim. As were Forum, Follies and A Little Night Music. Leonard Bernstein wrote the music for West Side Story and the lyrics were Sondheim’s.

After earning rave reviews for her show Take Me to the World: The Songs of Stephen Sondheim at 54 Below in New York, McKechnie is bringing the show to Los Angeles for two performances this week at Catalina Jazz Club. She will also perform at the Purple Room in Palm Springs on January 13th and January 14th. Next week she’ll bring the show to Feinsteins At The Nikko in San Francisco.

Last week I spoke with McKechnie who was in her apartment on the Upper West Side of New York City. We spoke about her career, her relationship with Sondheim, the joy in singing his music and, of course, A Chorus Line. What follows are excerpts from our conversation that have been edited for length and clarity.

For those who know you were in the original Broadway cast of Company, they might think that was your first introduction to Stephen Sondheim. But if my research is correct, you were actually in a touring production of West Side Story.

Oh my God. Yes, you’re right. Wow.

But when you auditioned for the the touring production of A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum that was the first time you sang… 

It was my first singing audition and Stephen – that’s the first time I ever met him. Of course, I barely remember anything because I was so nervous. I was so nervous that I could not control my hand from shaking when I read for George Abbott, the director. I couldn’t find my timing. I kept losing my way and inadvertently it made him laugh so much. He actually fell off the chair.

Can you imagine my first time out in a role, coming from the chorus of How to Succeed in Business Without Really Trying, to be in that? First of all, it took me a whole year on the road practically to find those laughs again because I didn’t know what I was doing. But what a great way to learn from the best people; a great cast. And a great way, when you’re 19, 20 years old, to see the country. 

Do you remember the moment where an awareness clicked in with you that what Stephen Sondheim did was different?

It was so sophisticated – as much as I could be sophisticated in those days. It was clever, witty, funny. It was very edgy. I appreciated all of that. I mean, the show was fantastic and this was his first Broadway show, of course, where he wrote both lyrics and music. It was great. They cast it very well and including me, I think. I did learn on the job. I had a great time. 

When you do a Sondheim show does it give you a skill set that is different than it might have been had you done other shows? 

I was lucky to work with so many great composers. But, any time I do a Sondheim show, it always makes me feel I’m a better singer and I’m a better actor because of really digging in to that material. Because that’s how he writes. He writes from a character-driven point-of-view and there’s so much finesse in it. I always improve. 

I heard him say over the years that he was always looking for actors who could sing versus singers who could act. If you are approaching your career as a singer/dancer does a vote of confidence from someone like Sondheim make you think there is more to me as an actor than perhaps I imagined?

I’ve always acted. It’s always been my basis for anything. Many years ago it pushed me into a place of resenting being labeled as a dancer/singer because everything I did had that acting. I studied. I was a professional student. My first chorus job, my only one, really, How to Succeed... I had never seen anything like a roomful of people telling a story with music and movement. I thought I have a job now. If I go to acting class and voice lessons I can learn how to sing and act. Then I can have a career perhaps longer than a dancer’s life. That was the whole plan.

Naturally I had to really work. But there was always an affinity for connecting with the character. That’s why I love Sondheim so much and and so many people. Michael Bennett was all character-driven. As was Jerome Robbins. We’re telling stories in a very specific way.

You’re someone who has sung the music and lyrics of Marvin Hamlisch, Edward Kleban, Cy Coleman, Dorothy Fields, Rodgers and Hammerstein, Irving Berlin, Cole Porter. The list goes on and on. But when you sing Stephen Sondheim what resonates most with you as a person when you’re singing his songs? 

I just relate to it so much because he is so clear and decisive. There’s so much clarity in his work. He doesn’t want it to be a cookie cutter of any idealized performance, some imagined performance. He wants you to bring yourself to it completely and fully and bring it alive. He wrote it for actors to do that. There’s not just one way to do it. The new revival of Company had his blessing and it was totally changed. Very different but quite fantastic to hear that score again.

Did you like the production if you saw it? 

I did. I went opening night. It was thrilling and it was very different. I decided to just give myself over to that world and let them take me. And they did. And it was just fantastic. The ghosts of the past would come on stage and I would have to kind of live dually with them.

Another project you did put you on the stage of the Shubert Theater in March of 1973, which was Sondheim: A Musical Tribute. Basically anybody who was anyone who had been in a Sondheim show was involved. You were also the choreographer of that event. So you’re working with all these people who have performed his work. What do you remember most about that March evening? 

The last number of the show. We’re at the dress rehearsal and Bert Shevelove (librettist of A Funny Thing…) is the director. He’s asking all the stars on stage to gather around the piano. It’s like they’re in Steve’s living room. There’s Angela Lansbury and there’s Chita Rivera and Jack Cassidy, Dorothy Collins, Alexis Smith, and Larry Kert. That time is one of the most exciting times of my life because of all of these people; the collaborative effort that went into it and and working with Angela. With Chita who said, “Well, what do you got for me?” And I went, “Oh, God, what are we going to do?” And I showed it to her in a very timid way. And she went, “Oh, yeah. Don’t you know that actors ask why, but dancers just do it.” She’s adorable. Love her.

Working with Angela was intimidating, and I learned a lot from her. I had this incredible very busy dance going on while she sang her big number. I was out of breath when I showed it to her. I finished and I looked at her and she looked at me and said, “I think I’ll just stand here and sing, if you don’t mind.” I didn’t mind. What a mistake I made giving her so much to do. She was so generous and kind. I learned a great lesson that sometimes the power is to just stand there and sing.

Two years later the Shubert Theater became a very important home for you because that’s where A Chorus Line played when it opened on Broadway. In your Tony Award acceptance speech you called A Chorus Line “a personal experience that taught me so much about performing and about people and humanity.” What has doing the work of Stephen Sondheim and his various collaborators taught you? 

I worked on all of this material at a very difficult time when we were going through COVID. He found the most beautiful and poetic expression of every experience and the human condition. There’s so much and it’s rich. When I do Losing My Mind, as much as I did it in [Follies], I’m still finding deeper ways to go. I’m unearthing different things and different feelings. You hope that is communicated to the audience, but the response has been really great. It’s a very wonderful thing to be able to do especially since losing him.

I feel his presence so much because of the material that I’m doing and I’m associated with. But it’s just to keep him alive in that way. He worked and loved his work so much and was so generous. He was also a great teacher and a friend. He cared so much about, not just his work, but everyone’s work and making it better. It’s all there; the human frailty. He doesn’t skip over things very easily. Sometimes when I’m working on the material, I go, How did he know that?

As for Follies, you played Sally at Paper Mill Playhouse in 1998. You then played Carlotta in 2005 at Barrington Stage Company. I looked up then New York Times critic Ben Brantley‘s review of the 2005 production. He said, “In superb voice, McKechnie endows her solo with a warm and even elation, as well as a truthfulness that suggests her Carlotta has not just survived, but enjoyed the bumpy road that is her life.”

Have you enjoyed the bumpy road that is your life? 

Yes. Mostly, yes. Because I appreciated that that’s what it was going to be. I loved being given the chance to do what I love. I’m able to pass it on to younger students of theater. I say, “You’re going to get rejected a lot.” You’re set up for it. So you have to really love what you’re doing. And the humor you have to have. Sometimes I get it after the fact. I’m going through something and it’s kind of it feels traumatic and chaotic. Then after you think about what happened it’s hilarious. So I’m more easy with things now.

Sammy Williams (the original Paul in A Chorus Line) told me that actress Celeste Holm said to him after he won his Tony Award for A Chorus Line to understand that this was not the peak of your career, this was just a moment in your career. And to expect those bumps and to expect highs and lows. I’m assuming you agree with her advice. 

Especially after you get an award! You go, “Okay, where are they?” The work doesn’t always happen that way. You always have to keep creating the demand. It’s really hard not to worry about it when you don’t have a set future. Now I have more work than I ever expected. 

Send in the Clowns is in your setlist for Take Me to the World. How does that song resonate with you now 22 years after you performed it in the context of the show? 

It seems actually perfect. I’m that much older and living a completely different kind of life. I’m not really that different, actually, but different in my head. It just fits perfectly because I find the personal connections in it that I relate to. If you think of it you could do that song so many different ways about so many different situations. But it is a woman dealing with the irony of what she was expecting, what she experienced. When you look at yourself and have an honest moment with yourself. It’s tough and it goes through all of these different changes. It’s touching. It’s funny. It’s sad. It can be anything as long as your truth is there.

That’s such an important word. That was very true with any company of A Chorus Line, too. Baayork Lee (the original Connie in A Chorus Line) who’s taken it all over the place, if she had a chance to give one note it would be just play the truth of your character.

Has your relationship with A Chorus Line changed? 

Oh, yes. It makes me appreciate it even more – if that’s possible. Having the great opportunity to go back in the show ten years later at 45. Not just getting back into shape and doing the show, but also emotionally and with a different perception. It was very gratifying. I had a better time.

The first time around it was Chorus Line fever. It was so hard and we were tired. We were very happy for the success, but we were just spinning. To be able to take a break and come back to it and really experience it and what everybody did, what everybody contributed, it was great.

I think a lot of people who are fans of A Chorus Line know that it took actress Marsha Mason to say Cassie needs to be cast in the show just before the finale. Do you think the show would have been successful had Michael Bennett not taken that advice?

It would not have been successful. He was smart enough to see that immediately. Don’t forget, we were locked in this little black box of a theater. He and Bob Avian, they’re there every day and you lose objectivity. You would invite your friends, your savvy friends. He invited Neil Simon and Marsha and a lot of people. Sondheim, Hal Prince, they would all come and give their feedback. Only people that he really respected and could trust. As soon as it was brought up he immediately went, “Oh yeah.”

He couldn’t see that if you don’t give any anyone any hope…In other words, if Zach doesn’t give her the job, he didn’t see it yet that she was the symbol for second chances. He was trying to be true to what would really happen, I think. He did the same thing with Promises, Promises, to try to make it to realistic. He had to raise the the heightened reality a little bit.

We’re now just a little bit over two years away from the 50th anniversary of A Chorus Line. What are your hopes, not just for this 50th anniversary, but how the show will be considered in another 50 years?

It’s bigger than any one of us. It’s bigger than the theater. It’s human beings connecting in such an artful, positive way and over generations. The lives it saved. The people it’s inspired. It’s even inspired some people not to get into the business. It looks so rough there. It has given so much. It’s the gift that keeps giving and I love it.

You told Playbill in 2010, on the occasion of Stephen Sondheim’s 80th birthday, that the highest compliment he ever gave to you was when he said, “Tonight I saw the actress and the character come together.” If Steve were able to have been at 54 Below last year or was able to be in Los Angeles to see Take Me to the World, what do you think his response would be and why do you think he’d have that response to the way you’re celebrating his work?

You just made me cry. I would hope that he would approve and like the way I was doing it. I have a feeling he would and I think he would appreciate the fact that there’s so much love and really good arrangements servicing his music and his intent. And doing a different interpretation, perhaps. I feel proud that he might really approve. I would love it if he would give me notes because his notes are so great. 

Photo: Donna McKechnie (Courtesy Chris Isaacson Presents)

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How many people get reviews like this? In 1981, Frank Rich of the New York Times called her performance, “one of the most powerful theatrical coups to be found in a Broadway musical since Ethel Merman sang ‘Everything’s Coming Up Roses’ at the end of Act I of Gypsy.” 40 years later Jesse Green in the same paper said the best moment of the 2021 Tony Awards was her performance of the same song Rich raved about. So it goes for Tony Award-winner Jennifer Holliday (Dreamgirls) who will be performing on Saturday at The Wallis in Beverly Hills. (She’ll probably be booking a lot more dates after the overwhelming acclaim she received after the Tony Awards.)

If you’ve never seen her perform And I Am Telling You I’m Not Going (which I was lucky enough to see her perform twice at the Shubert Theatre in Century City), take a look here.

Four days before she made mincemeat of the roof of the Winter Garden Theater, Holliday and I spoke by phone. She was in New York for Tony rehearsals. What follows are excerpts from our conversation that have been edited for length and clarity.

When you when you first started out, could you imagine having a career that would go over 40 years? And what does it mean to you that you have. 

No, I couldn’t have imagined it. I really was not trying to be in show business. That was not my goal. I discovered singing in the church choir. My first show was Your Arms Too Short to Box with God because I was just doing that for a little while and then I’d come back home. But I went up to audition when Michael Bennett saw me for Dreamgirls. I was like, oh, OK. Unfortunately I never did get to college. So that’s that’s the only drawback. 

During rehearsals for Dreamgirls, director Michael Bennett gave you videos of Barbra Streisand performing to watch. How much of what you learned during that production has stayed with you and remains part of how you perform today?

A great deal of it. First of all, I taught myself how to hold my notes long like she did. Because I don’t have a trained voice and I don’t think she does either. I would be so curious, like, how is she holding that note so long? [Streisand] was the first. I had never seen anybody like her. I never knew who she was. And so a lot of that just stayed with me.

And then I incorporated it. And I Am Telling You I’m Not Going that was not a part of the original kind of feeling of it. And in fact, everybody wanted me to take it out, especially David Geffen with the record company. [He] said “Why you got to hold that note so long. You’ll never get any radio play with that. Nobody’s going to listen to that if it’s soft like that in the middle, you know?” And I was like, well, I don’t know. But Michael Bennett agreed with me, said, “Well, we’re not really talking about records right now. She likes it and I like it.“

Thank God I still have the lilt in my voice and the belt. Even though I don’t sing as high as I used to sing, I still get pretty good pretty much up there.

Other actors who worked with Michael Bennett have talked about how cruel he could be. (See how his collaborator, the late Bob Avian, talked about that cruelty here.) What was your experience and how do you look back on that time with him?

I actually had a different experience with Michael Bennett. I’ll be honest with you. This is the part that I haven’t really discussed at all. The only thing I felt that he was cruel towards me is that he inserted himself as a Svengali. So him being a gay man and me being a young woman kind of made me foolishly believe that he actually loved me. And I thought that was cruel because that was not ever going to be anything like that, but I really was young. I didn’t know, you know what I’m saying? So that’s the only thing. I didn’t see that then and boy did I care back then. 

You did a television interview that I saw from 1981 and you were asked where do you get the pain that you put into your singing voice as it relates to And I Am Telling You I’m Not Going. And you said it was the experience of being on the road and leaving home at eighteen. Forty years later you still maintain that pain in every performance I’ve ever seen. What’s the source of that pain today?

I think that I have suffered greatly with depression, clinical depression, pretty much my entire adult life. And so I think that there is balancing that is there. And, you know, still the loneliness, even after all of these years, you know, of being on the road and traveling and doing all these things. And so to me, it’s still there. So I think that’s kind of in my voice. What I usually try to do now is balance my concerns now with something that speaks of joy and that I can still think of love and all that does, that kind of thing and not be concerned about it.

What I’ve learned now, which I didn’t know, is that there is no time limit or cut off time for growth. You can still grow and mature and change and become the person you want to be and just keep learning.

That growth was apparent in a 2013 interview you did with NPR. You told them your perspective on life was “Don’t try to figure out the ending of the movie. Stay to see it. Don’t don’t try to figure out how to play it because it takes different twists and turns.”

It really does. And especially with show business, it’s so up and down. It’s really a hard business. And sometimes, you know, you just kind of go, “I want to give up, I want to do whatever.” Because you just feel like you’re not making anything in this. So that’s that kind of thing. You got to just stay for the whole movie. It’s a slow movie, but, you’ve got to stay. 

At what at what point did you come to the realization that that was the best way to deal with both the highs and the lows of doing what you do? 

Unfortunately, late in life. Finally I felt like I had found a way to cope with my heartaches and setbacks and disappointments. This is a rough business and people make so many promises that just never come, you know? So you waste a lot of time with a lot of people sometimes who just say they’re going to do things for you. They probably have good intentions, but some things just don’t manifest.

And so when I was turning 50 and I was like, OK, I’m not really anywhere right now and I don’t really know what’s going to become of my career or anything. And I said, but for the first time, I’m not going to be trying to call around and see what’s going to happen or make anything happen. I’m just going to feel this. Things could turn around. That’s when I really felt that I had learned a lot about my own self. I was beginning to learn how to love my own self.

I knew that I had preserved my instrument, my voice…if I could just hold on. A lot of times in show business it is later in life that you get your just reward, you know? And I just ask God. I said, if I could just live long enough to get that third act. So to me, I feel like I’m on the verge of my third act, especially here coming full circle with returning to the Tony Awards to do my number. To feel Effie, Michael Bennett and all of the people. I feel like I’ll they’ll all be with me Sunday, you know? OK, this is going to be your third act and what will be a new beginning. 

For tickets to see Jennifer Holliday at The Wallis in Beverly Hills, please go here.

All photographs of Jennifer Holliday courtesy Jennifer Holliday and The Wallis

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“I love it! Someone in the cast started it and it just went like a snowball,” he said by phone last week. “They were doing it for their own amusement and it just caught on. I was so proud of them.”

The popularity of the video only mirrors the passion people have for A Chorus Line. The timing for Avian couldn’t be better as his memoir, Dancing Man: A Broadway Choreographer’s Journey, was recently published.

It was while dancing in a production of West Side Story that Avian met the man who would become his best friend and collaborator, Michael Bennett. Together they would work on such landmark shows as Company, Follies, Promises, Promises, A Chorus Line, Ballroom and Dreamgirls. After Bennett passed away in 1987, Avian would continue working on musicals including Miss Saigon, Putting It Together, Sunset Boulevard and ultimately directing that revival of A Chorus Line.

We began our conversation by talking about that iconic choreography that opens A Chorus Line. Here are edited excerpts from the interview. Comments have been edited for clarity and length.

“I Hope I Get It” has such a distinctive style. What inspired that choreography and why do you think that opening remains as vital today as it was in 1975?

What makes it special is Marvin’s [Hamlisch] music because it’s in 6 not 8. Most dance combos you count in 8. Being in six gives it a curve that’s subliminal. The attack is different and you feel it in your gut. I think that’s the root of what makes it so special. Michael did that.

You say in the book that at the age of 10 or 11, even without training, you knew you could dance. Was there one moment that made you come to that realization? Your own “I Can Do That?”

Being home alone and putting on a record player of the things I liked best and I would start dancing around and see where it took me. Being alone you have that freedom. You didn’t know what you were going to do and you let it pour out of your soul. Luckily we had a big living room. My life was concealed because I was gay and my parents were ethnic and it was a big no no. When I put on the music and closed the door and was my myself, I could be who I was and not have any censors around me.

Follies at one point had two men in drag during “Buddy’s Blues.” In 1971 that must have been played as a stereotype. What is the process where ideas like that find their way into a show and as a gay man how did you feel about it?

When we went into the show a lot of the score hadn’t been written yet. Stephen Sondheim needs to see things first. He writes his best showstoppers when he’s out of town. Whether “I’m Still Here” or “Send in the Clowns” or “Being Alive,” it’s because he sees the show. That’s part of his process. I don’t know. It just comes and you roll with it and you do the best you can.

When you and Michael accepted the Tony Award for Best Choreography for A Chorus Line, you said, “This is the professional high point of my life.” Michael said, “Michael Bennett is Bob Avian.” What meant more to you in that moment, winning the award or Michael’s acknowledgement of the importance of your contributions?

Michael and I were so close. We were brothers, never lovers. Everything we did we did together almost 24 hours a day. We were on the phone when we weren’t in the rehearsal studio. It was his ultimate compliment to say, “I love you Bobby.” It’s so much easier and nicer to share success and failure with someone.

Both Sammy Williams (who originated the role of Paul in A Chorus Line) and Baayork Lee (who originated the role of Connie in the same show) told me stories about how cruel Michael could be.

If you are successful and you are working on a multimillion dollar musical the pressure is enormous. You have to have strong shoulders to handle this. The one fear you have is are they going to fire me.

In many cases it’s about their anger in themselves. I find myself getting so angry at a dancer or a group of dancers when I’m unhappy with myself. It’s aimed at me, but it comes out of my mouth and at them. It’s like using the wrong color on a canvas.

Miss Saigon, Sunset Boulevard, the London revival of Follies and many more are part of your post-Michael Bennett career. Some artists say they don’t choose the work, the work chooses them. Is that your point of view?

Well it happens to me. I had no idea what was going to happen when Michael died. He talked me into doing Follies in London on his deathbed. I didn’t want to do it again. I kept saying it’ll never be the original production. What it gave me was Cameron Mackintosh. He just took to me and globbed onto me and dictated the rest of my career.

Michael was clearly so important to you. What do you think he’d say if he could see what you’ve done with your life and career since his passing?

Our respect for each other was so honest and so real. We exposed all our inner souls to each other. I was lucky to have that relationship. I think he would say, “Well done, Bobby.”

Photo of Bob Avian and Julie Andrews courtesy of Bob Avian

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Miss Saigon sets the story of a young girl who falls in love with a soldier in Vietnam. Kim (Emily Bautista at most performances; Myra Molloy at others) works for an insidious man at a club named The Engineer (Red Concepcíon). He puts on a “contest” called Miss Saigon with the winner to be the prize for a Marine. One of those Marines, Chris (Anthony Festa) becomes smitten with Kim and after a night of sex (her first time), he offers to bring her to America. When he leaves Vietnam, due to the imminent fall of Saigon, he goes without taking her. She holds out hope that he will one day return for her and honor his promise.

Three years go by and lot has changed for both Chris and Kim. When they are reunited those changes lead to a tragic ending that won’t be revealed here. (Not everyone knows Madama Butterfly – no reason to give it all away.)

The original production opened in London in 1989. It was soon followed by a Broadway production in 1991. In both productions, Lea Salonga played Kim and Jonathan Pryce played The Engineer. They both were awarded the Olivier Award and the Tony Award for their performances. In the 2017 revival, Eva Nobelzada (who is currently in Hadestown) played Kim and Jon Jon Briones played The Engineer.

Musical staging and choreography for this production is by Bob Avian, who collaborated with Michael Bennett on A Chorus Line, Dreamgirls and more. He was the original choreographer of Miss Saigon.

Laurence Connor is the director of this production, as he was of the revival. He was also the director for new productions of Les Misérables and The Phantom of the Opera.

It should be noted that Michael Mahler is also credited with additional lyrics.

For tickets at the Pantages go here.

Tickets at Segerstrom Hall had not gone at sale at press time.

Main Photo: Anthony Festa & Emily Bautista in “Miss Saigon” (Photo by Matthew Murphy)

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