Matt Johnson & The New Jet Set will perform their jazz versions of many classic Disney songs at the Sierra Madre Playhouse beginning Friday, March 22nd and continuing through Sunday, March 24th. Johnson has created a multi-media show that includes stories, anecdotes from his many years as being a Cast Member at Disneyland and many of the classic songs we all know and love.

Last week I spoke with Johnson (who drums for multiple artists including Jane Lynch) about his lengthy relationship with all things Disney and the songwriters and songs that make us all light up when we hear them. What follows are excerpts from our conversation that have been edited for length and clarity. To see the full interview with Johnson, please go to our YouTube channel (where you can also see an interview with Alan Menken).

Q: Duke Ellington famously sings in one of his compositions, “It don’t mean a thing if it ain’t got that swing.” What does the Disney songbook mean with and without swing? [The lyrics were by Irving Mills]

Listen, the Disney songbook doesn’t need my interpretation to stand alone in the annals of memorable music. We just happen to interpret it in our chosen vehicle. We take those memorable melodies and just put them in the jazz machine and crank them up and what comes out is usually very swinging. A lot of the music lends itself to swing. There’s lots of lullabies and happy children’s songs and some marches and some of them naturally lend themselves to swing. Then others we choose to have a little more fun with them. In one instance the beautiful ballad A Dream is a Wish Your Heart Makes from Cinderella. We’ll do it as a samba and play almost a double time rhythm underneath it. So sometimes the swing just happens. And other times we consciously choose to put it in a style that makes us even more happy.

Some of those films had great opportunities for swing. They did have Louis Prima as a voice in The Jungle Book, and they had Peggy Lee write songs and perform them for Lady and the Tramp. But those were exceptions. Do you think that there was a conscious decision in the history of Disney songs not to go into a swing mode? Or do you think that the films didn’t necessarily lend themselves to that style?

I know from being a long time Disney cast member that story is the most important thing. So whoever was in charge whenever a production was in the making, they thought about what would be the best way to convey the story. So conscious decision – definitely. But just crowbar in swing music? No.

By the time you get to Toy Story with someone like Randy Newman, you have a composer who has jazz in his bloodstream.

He does. You’ve Got a Friend in Me has very much a swingy bounce to it. I think it’s definitely a conscious decision to play jazz and or any other style. I’m thinking now Ratatouille – all Parisian. Michael Giacchino’s orchestration with lots of accordion and clarinet. Very Parisian, almost a gypsy jazz appropriate for the setting in the story it tells.

How do you see the Disney songbook having evolved over the years? What do you like most about the way it was, and what do you like most about the way it is today? 

I have had the wonderful experience of seeing it in the audience’s faces as we’ve performed the show a few times now. You can’t separate the music from the time when you experienced it in the movie theater. For those of us of a certain age, that means a really grand occasion. Back before you could stream a movie on your watch, it was a really big deal to go to a theater. We always looked forward to the Disney movies. Growing up in Southern California we had the opportunity to go to Disneyland. So we saw all the the tie-ins with the attractions and all the visuals. And, of course, we saw the characters. We also had the Wonderful World of Color and the Wonderful World of Disney. The music is just one of many, many emotional touchstones that are layered in us.

If there was any one team of composers or songwriters for whom the Disney catalog is best represented, it’s going to be the Sherman Brothers: Richard and Robert Sherman. What do you think makes their songs more beloved, or given them the ability to stand the test of time above perhaps any other songwriter’s songs who have appeared in Disney movies? 

First of all, we have to agree to the premise of your question are they, in fact, the greatest? And I think the reason both of us initially say yes, without a doubt, is because of the volume of work that they did when the studio was young or in their heyday. There was a period of time when Disney wasn’t making great movies, but everything before 1975 rocked. Maybe even earlier than that. Aristocats came out in 1970 and certainly everything that preceded it was just fantastic.

Walt referred to them as the boys. He’d storyboard with some of his artists and he said, let me get the boys in here, and then we’ll figure out where we’re going from here. The stories that I know, and even the documentary footage that I’ve seen, there was such a collaboration [with] the brothers. To see one at the piano and the other one scratching down something and changing and getting stuck on a word and seeing that collaboration was personally very inspiring. 

Doesn’t it feel like Alan Menken is the heir to what the Sherman Brothers were able to accomplish?

In and through the collaboration with his lyricists…Yes. All of those contemporary things from Beauty and the Beast and The Little Mermaid. I’m no different than most. I’m really affected emotionally performing this music and having the responsibility of giving a little insight through my narration. Instead of saying, “Now we’re going to play I Just Can’t Wait to Be King,” I give a little background on the music and the production or something that I’ve read that’s interesting that maybe we don’t know. I have to be careful that I don’t trigger an emotional little thing in me that becomes distracting or, even worse, makes me emotional. 

Don’t you feel like this music allows us to revisit our childhood in some way, shape or form?

Every single time. My friend Charles Phoenix put it so perfectly, “Every time I go there, I feel all the ages I’ve ever been.” Because he remembers encountering the Disney magic at all these different points in his life. And also remembering the people in your life that are no longer with us. When you think about going there with your grandparents, I mean, that’s a powerful memory, you know? It’s just part of who I am. 

You can’t walk through the park without hearing music everywhere. A lot of it’s piped in now, but walk Main Street. You know better than anyone, that’s where you often hear live music.

Right. Straw Hatters are still out there. From season to season, sometimes they bring back a couple of what we call the break down groups: The Firehouse Hook and Ladder Gang. It’s been a while. The sax quintet who dressed in that Keystone Cops? We say Keystone Cops, but, the police uniforms from the previous century. The pre-recorded music there is all early, sort of parlor music. It’s not exactly ragtime yet. It predates ragtime. It’s happy family music from the turn of the century.

A lot of the music that that you and I know and that people probably have at least half a generation below us embrace as well, is stuff that kids today don’t necessarily have any relationship to unless their parents held on to old DVDs or they would catch the films on Disney Plus. What do you see in in terms of young people who come to these concerts and their response to these songs that they didn’t grow up with the same way you and I did?

There’s one thing that happens in general. I’m reminded of my friend Tony Guerrero, who says, “Even if you don’t think you’re familiar with jazz, if you witness a live performance, you can’t help but like it.” There’s just something about live musical performance that’s very powerful. Something you and I would take for granted because we sat through innumerable concerts, but young people wouldn’t necessarily. We try to have a couple of the contemporary Disney songs in there.

My indoctrination into the world of Disney took place when my aunt took me at three years old to go see Mary Poppins. That was the first time I became aware of movies. It was the first time I became aware of musicals in any way, shape or form. Obviously, the first time that I became aware of Disney in any in any measurable way. It is my understanding that you have worked with Dame Julie Andrews.

I was performing with a group called the Palm Springs Yacht Club in the early 90s. It was a musical comedy group, but we worked for maybe 3 or 4 years as a warm-up act for a handful of touring celebrities at the time, including Julie Andrews, but also the Smothers Brothers and comedian Rich Little.

We traveled one whole summer with Julie Andrews. It was my personal experience that she was wonderful and had a wonderful sense of humor. She was appreciative of the small supporting role that we played in her show. She traveled with an ensemble as well. We were traveling separately. Her band was on a standard tour bus at the time. She drove in a limousine and had a driver. This was the caravan. It wasn’t uncommon that the band, while on the road, their wives would come out sometimes and join the tour for the weekend and fly home. I overheard a conversation where she offered one of the guys the limo so he and his wife could travel from one venue to the next together to have some time together. She road on the bus. That said a lot about who she was. She was always very, very good humored and always made us feel as though our role was valued.

In Richard Sherman’s book, Pursuing Happiness, he tells a story about giving a lecture at USC. As he described it, some smartalec shouted out, “How much money did you make from Winnie the Pooh?” He goes on to tell this story about a girl in Texas who had fallen down a well. As they were trying to rescue her the girl apparently told her mother that she wanted her to sing Winnie the Pooh, because “Winnie the Pooh was in great tightness and he got out and I’m going to get out.” Richard Sherman said, “That moment made me the richest man in the world.” How does music in general, and these Disney songs in particular, make you the richest man in the world?

We just performed our show a couple nights ago. After the show a gentleman came up to me and said, “My dad has Alzheimer’s.” Out of the blue. I never met this guy before. I said I’m very sorry, not knowing where he was going with this. And he said, “He’s been living with us. When I was leaving the house, I said, I’m going to see a Disney show tonight. They’re playing Disney music.” His father, with Alzheimer’s, brightened up and said, “Do you remember when we took you to see The Aristocats?” Now, The Aristocats is not one of the most memorable movies, but it’s a fabulous movie released in 1970, and it happened to be the very last animated feature that Walt Disney would be able to approve for production in 1965. 

He went on to say that his little brother was born and stayed in the ICU for six weeks. [He continued] “When my little brother was able to finally come home my dad took my sister and I out to see The Aristocats.” This person who was suffering from Alzheimer’s was able to tap into that because of his connection to the Disney music. You can’t put a price on that; that I was part of a performance that reminded both those individuals of that story and that he chose to relate it to me.

Knowing how it affects people, how deeply connected people are to this music, it’s a great responsibility. Whether I’m playing at the park or whether I’m playing on the outside with my own band and present this music at the highest level, because I know how people relate to it. It is a gift that I cherish and I don’t take it for granted.

To watch the full interview with Matt Johnson, please go here.

Main Photo: Matt Johnson (Courtesy Matt Johnson)

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The film covers Broadway shows from 1959 to the early 1980s and features interviews with Bea Arthur, Elizabeth Ashley, Alec Baldwin, Candy Brown, Carol Burnett, Glenn Close, André De Shields, Jane Fonda, Robert Goulet, Robert Guillaume, Cherry Jones, Baayork Lee, Donna McKechnie, Liza Minnelli, Robert Morse, Jerry Orbach, Robert Redford, Debbie Reynolds, Chita Rivera, Eva Marie Saint, Liev Schreiber, Elaine Stritch, Dick Van Dyke, Ben Vereen and Lesley Ann Warren.

Almost exactly two years later the man who made those films, Rick McKay, passed away suddenly. Broadway: Beyond the Golden Age was left unfinished and unreleased.

This weekend Great Performances on PBS will begin airing the documentary which was completed by friends and colleagues of McKay. [Check your local PBS listings for details.]

Two of the most important people who helped complete Broadway: Beyond the Golden Age were producers Jamie deRoy and Jane Klain. Last week I spoke by phone with both women to get the details on how they were able to finish McKay’s film and how they hope it brings to fruition everything McKay wanted the film to be.

What follows are excerpts from those conversations that have been edited for length and clarity.

How did you get involved with finishing Broadway: Beyond the Golden Age?

DeRoy: It sort of became this natural thing that we ended up doing to see that his wishes were carried out. Everybody had been asking for years about the film because the film had been going on for years.

Klain: Four of his producers and friends obviously realized what Rick would want is for the film to get out there. We all worked towards what Rick wanted. Since the first film was a theatrical release and it was so unlikely to get another, being on television was the ideal home for it. I know his first choice was PBS.

How far along had Rick gotten with the film before he passed away?

DeRoy: He had gotten pretty far, but it was not a finished film. It was way too long.

Klain: When Rick died I connected with a brilliant editor who would work on it pro bono, but that fell through. Another producer/director wanted to unravel it and make a different film and I said no. Rick was really a visionary. He had a unique way of storytelling. The way he edited was amazing.

He seemed to get almost everyone he ever wanted for these films. How did he do that?

DeRoy: Everybody that met him and he would interview would end up adoring him. He really charmed people. He loved the theater so much. He could talk to anybody.

Klain: He had somewhere between 100-150 interviews with these legends. Some were one to one-and-a-half hours, some were five hours.

Rick told me how thrilled he was to have found footage of Chita Rivera and Liza Minnelli performing together in the original production of Chicago when Gwen Verdon had to miss several performances.*

Klain: Candy Brown was a Fosse dancer. I had seen footage she had taken with her 8mm camera. I’m very good at tracking down people. They became such close friends. She let him have the footage – amongst it was footage with Chita and Liza which Liza had not seen before. Rick’s film has John Kander talking about it and Liza talking about it.

Rick was kind of a one-man band doing it all with his films, but the new film has 11 producers.

DeRoy: He pretty much was a one-man band. But listen, all of us were out there raising money and making introductions and helping. If I was in the room when he was doing an interview or showing the film I got acknowledged. If I wasn’t in the room, I wouldn’t have gotten acknowledged. Maybe it made a much better story.

Klain: If Rick had lived one of the big hurdles he was going to have to face was raising money for the post-production and all the licensing. That was a big deal for the first film. WNET 13 has done a lot of that. We’ve been in the decision making seat and PBS has been amazing.

Jamie I want to ask you a question I asked Rick five years ago. In an era where younger people don’t care about history because it was “before their time,” what would you tell them is the reason to care about Broadway and the people in this film?

DeRoy: It’s like the building blocks of everything. I’m always appalled at actors or singers who don’t know the history. When I was involved in the cabaret community and mentioned Margaret Whiting they would go, “who?” I don’t get it. It’s part of your learning process. These films could be shown in schools and you can learn a hell of a lot from it. We all learned by watching Ethel Merman. These were my idols. Even though they were before my time, so to speak, they are the ones who laid the groundwork for everyone to come up afterwards.

Jonathan Groff, who introduces the movie, wrote Rick a fan letter saying how much the film meant to him. Shortly before Rick died I took him to see Jonathan at the 92nd Street Y doing a show. They were talking afterwards about doing a follow-up interview because Jonathan was so young when he did his and he had some experiences since that first interview.

It’s just been a passion for all of us and it was certainly a passion of Rick’s. I’m only sorry he’s not here to see it come to life. And everybody can now enjoy it. Not only enjoy it, but learn from it. It’s all there and these films were meant to be seen.

*Liza Minnelli took on the role of Roxie Hart from August 8th to September 13th, 1975. There was announcement over the PA system that Gwen Verdon would be out at the performance. Audiences would grumble. The announcement continued to reveal that Minnelli was performing in her place. There were no press releases and no inserts in the Playbills.

Photo of Rick McKay courtesy WNET/PBS

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But why wouldn’t it be? He’s the original Bert in Mary Poppins. He originated the role of Albert Peterson in the hit musical Bye, Bye, Birdie! (and won a Tony Award for his performance.) He was tapped by filmmaker Ken Hughes to play Caractacus Potts in the film adaptation of Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. And then there’s his eponymous and legendary television show. So an intimate evening with a man who has more songs and stories up his sleeves than people half his age is bound to be an evening to remember.

The music part of this show will includes his vocal ensemble, the Vantastix. Supporting them all will be musicians Bill Bixler (saxophone), Tony Guerrero (trumpet), Charley Pollard (trombone), Marc LeBrun (piano), music director David Enos (bass) and John Ferraro on drums.

There probably isn’t much that hasn’t already been said about this legend. So rather than attempt to cobble something else witty to say about Mr. Van Dyke, let me turn this over to the cast of Mary Poppins Returns who can speak directly to the man and the magic he bestowed upon them all.

In hopes of finding tickets available, you can always check here. Good luck!

Main photo of Chita Rivera & Dick Van Dyke in the original Broadway production of Bye, Bye Birdie (photo by Friedman-Abeles Photography/Courtesy of the New York Public Archives)

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I spoke to Caruso by phone from his home in New York about his road show version of Cast Partyand his personal wish list of participants while in LA.

When you take Cast Party on the road, how broadly is the concept of the show recognized?

Happily, and because of the Internet, it’s pretty well known. It’s unbelievable. We’ve done London and Los Angeles many times. We’ve gone to San Francisco, Chicago, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Miami, Delray Beach six times, Dallas, Austin. That’s not to say that I don’t get on Facebook and say, “who knows the best tap dancer in Cleveland or who is the musical theatre diva in Delray Beach?” Literally within minutes I have a list of people to contact. That’s not to say that we don’t keep it open as an open mic night, but I like to have a list of ringers before we get there just for my own nervous system.

When non-pros get up to sing do they realize what it means to have Billy Stritch playing piano for them?

We always laugh at some of the people who don’t have a clue how fortunate they are to sing with the Cast Party Symphony Orchestra in New York. You don’t understand you just had one of the great accompanists in the world with two of the greatest musicians in New York accompany you. Turn around and enjoy it.

What makes Billy Stritch (who has his own show at Vitello’s the night before) more than just Liza’s accompanist? (In addition to Liza he is Music Director for Tony Bennett, Linda Lavin, Christine Ebersole, Marilyn Maye and more.)

It’s the fact that Billy is an entertainer. We are both obsessed with those great variety shows of the 70s. As musically savvy as he is, he knows how to put on a great show. There are a lot of good piano players, but not a lot of good entertainers. I would certainly classify him as a wonderful entertainer.

If a star comes up to the mic, does he or she get any special treatment?

As you know it can be Liza, it can be the lady who wrote a song about her flower garden. It’s a very democratic system. Everybody is invited and everybody is equally celebrated. If somebody is not so professional they still get the same amount of time and attention, as does someone who is a very fancy esteemed entertainer. There’s no booing. There’s not “get her off the stage” or snarky bitchy hosting involved.

You prefer upbeat songs because it is a party. And you keep your energy and sense of humor up at all times. What gets you down?

I don’t like to see talent mishandled. I don’t like to see talent made fun of. When I watch the television competition shows that really bothers me. When I see the judges rolling their eyes, who the hell are you? The Chitas, the Lizas, the pros in this town, would never do that in 1,000 years. That’s why there is no Broadway Idol. This community would never stand for it. And by the way, these people who are coming in to sing for us are giving me a career. They are creating the show that I am hosting. If somebody isn’t my personal taste, it’s not for me to denigrate them because they chose to come in and sing their song.

When you come to Los Angeles do you have a wish list in your pocket?

I do. Some of my wish list shows up. Last time we had Megan Hilty, Jane Monheit, JoAnne Worley, and Colleen Ballinger who I love who is Miranda Sings. It was just a thrilling night and that’s just the tip of the iceberg. I always go back to the people I grew up watching and being obsessed with:  Carol Burnett, Dick Van Dyke. If either one would show up I would literally drop dead. I think Bruno Mars would get it. Ricky Martin would so dig it. I know he would! People like that who would play along. Barry Manilow has come to see us, but he’s never performed which kind of kills me because I know he’s that kind of entertainer. Streisand is the ultimate. I don’t know if an open mic is her thing so much. She knows Billy. We have friends in common. I know her sister and her son. They’ve both been to see us. Would it kill you, Barbra?

16 years down the road, do you still enjoy hosting Cast Party?

We figured out a couple years ago that at Birdland we’ve served 75,000 cocktails, had 11 ukuleles, three Osmonds, one ex-Village People member, two Miss America’s and 4,000 performances of “Orange Colored Sky.” It’s not paving roads. It’s hosting an open mic night. It’s fun. I throw a party and people actually show up. And I don’t have to clean up afterwards!

All images Courtesy of Jim Caruso

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Van Dyke is best known for his roles in Mary Poppins, Chitty Chitty Bang Bang, Cold Turkey and of course his own television show, The Dick Van Dyke Show. He will soon be seen in Mary Poppins Returns. This concert comes on the heels of the passing of his brother, Jerry, in January.

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