Waiting Game is a powerful album that features spoken word and hip-hop on the first half and addresses women’s issues, gay marriage and more. The second half is all instrumental and primarily improvised.

When Carrington takes to the stage of the Hollywood Bowl on Sunday with her band Social Science for day two of this weekend’s Hollywood Bowl Jazz Festival, the album’s fully instrumental component might feature prominently.

It was that album and the centennial anniversary of the Hollywood Bowl that became just the first of many topics we discussed during a recent Zoom conversation. What follows are excerpts from that conversation that have been edited for length and clarity.

In a 2019 interview with Jazzwise.com you said of Waiting Game that it was written about the state of the world which had reached, “red level, the danger zone.” That was released two years ago and probably recorded a bit before that. Where are we today in your opinion?

We worked on it from 2017 through 2019. So things were brewing and then the lid was taking off so to say. It doesn’t mean just because the lid was taken off things got worse. Things were probably the same in most cases. It’s just the awareness changed. So I think that there are a lot of people that didn’t really quite fully understand how things are now. Everybody’s eyes seem to be more open it, which is great.

Some people think [the record] predicted what was gonna happen in some ways in 2020. I don’t really see it that way because it was honest from us about what was happening when we wrote the music. It just became more obvious, I think, to some people.

Does that make you optimistic that things will get better?

I’m fully optimistic. Things have definitely moved in the right direction. It has to continue to because we can’t become complacent or think that something has been fixed. It’s a process and it took a long time for things to get to where they are and have been. So it’s not going to change overnight. But I do feel that whatever shift happened in 2020 it was a seismic shift. It’s a reset in some ways and an opportunity for a real transformation. 

This performance does coincide with the 100th anniversary of the Hollywood Bowl, albeit celebrated two years late because of the pandemic. Does that in any way influence your approach to the to the appearance? Is there a historical lens, perhaps, through which we can see the venue in conjunction with what you’re choosing to do?

I think that when we look at these venues or institutions, anything that’s 100 years old probably has some history with racism. So as we celebrate these institutions I feel like we should look at the trajectory and look at how they’ve evolved as well. I don’t know really the history of the Bowl, so I can’t really say what it was doing 100 years ago. I just know that when you look at this country and when you look at the entertainment business, when you look at really anything, any field or sector, I don’t believe that any escape having to deal with a history that’s less than ideal when it comes to racism.

Or sexism. You’re one of three women performing at this year’s jazz festival and the other two are vocalists.

That’s obviously been a problem in jazz with women instrumentalists and I’m obviously trying to do my share in working on that. The songs on our records that deal with gender justice, we probably won’t perform just because we don’t have the spoken word and rappers that we had on those. But it’s such a big part of the work that I do in general that I think that my presence alone speaks to that in a way. But now we have to challenge them on these issues.

Drummer Viola Smith wrote an article for Downbeat in 1942 arguing for replacing male musicians going off to war with female musicians who are talented rather than third-rate men who could play and we’re still discussing the issue of gender parity in jazz today.

If you keep having art reflect one group of people then it’s not good for the art. So I think sometimes you have to think about gender and you think about rape and sexual abuse. You have to think about all the people on the margins, all of the people that have been excluded for some reason. Not just because of their abilities, but also because of lack of resources, lack of mentorship, apprenticeship – all of those things. I think it’s really crazy when you think about it.

In your Tedx Talk at Beacon Street you mention that Herbie Hancock and Wayne Shorter told you not to play music, but to play life and that you were seeking a deeper understanding of both. That talk was in 2016. Six years later where are you on that journey of understanding?

It really is just saying that there’s a connection between your life and your music – that it doesn’t have a separation. There’s no separation between the art that you create and who you are. I think some people create art because they have the tools to do it, because they learn the skill. I think all of the skills are important and prove important. But I think at some point you have to not create the art because you have the tools, but because there’s something in your life and in your connection to humanity. There’s something in all of that compelled you to do whatever it is that you do artistically. So I think that’s what they mean.

I feel closer to that baby now. It takes time because you have to live enough to feel even confident about that. If your perspective is something that you really feel, you should put it out there. You shouldn’t do it because it works. You should do it to see what happens. When we do what works at some point you could argue that’s not even creative anymore because we know what works. If you’ve been doing it long enough, you know what works. So to see what’s going to happen means that you’re being fearless and to engage in your imagination in the ultimate way. I think getting closer and closer to that is what most of us hopefully strive for.

Your friend Angela Davis said, “I am no longer accepting the things I cannot change. I am changing the things I cannot accept.” How much does that principle serve as a guide to your work and if so, where is your work headed next to accomplish that?

I love that quote by her. I’ve just started on that journey over the last six years or so. I’m not always sure where I’m going. I just know that I committed to that ideal. And I think it’s a lot of work. It’s very fulfilling because I feel like my work is much more purpose-driven and mission-oriented and I think that’s so important. The universe has definitely supported that because I’m working more than ever and it all feels like it’s good work.

We’ve run without planning so much. We’ve run for the mystery of life – run to discover where I’ll be going. But I do know that the part of me that’s a full-fledged jazz musician I’m going to improvise. I need to be able to pivot quickly. I can’t just make a five-year plan or a two-year plan. I can’t do that. It’s just not in my DNA. So I tend to wait until some mystical moment happens. So I can’t really answer where I’m going. But the one thing I do know is the rest of my days will be about the mission, the various missions. They’re all connected. I can no longer just play because it’s fun or take a gig because it pays well. That’s important, too, but it’s not what drives me. I feel like I’m just getting started.

Main Photo: Terri Lyne Carrington (Photo ©Delphine Diallo/Courtesy of the Artist)

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Whether or not you are familiar with Conlon’s vast knowledge of opera (and for that matter classical music), if you’re a fan of either or both you will want to consider tuning in to a live conversation he will be having on Viking.Tv.

What is Viking.TV? It’s the digital platform of cruise line Viking.

Every Wednesday they program conversations with artists from multiple aspects of the performing arts. Sometimes it might be a composer, or a performer. In this week’s episode of Art and Music Wednesdays, Conlon is the guest.

Conlon is more than just a fan favorite. He’s conducted over 375 performances at LA Opera and nearly 300 performances with the Metropolitan Opera in New York. In his spare time he is Principal Conductor of the National Symphony Orchestra of the RAI in Torino.

He is the recipient of three Grammy Awards. One for Best Opera Recording for LA Opera’s production of John Corigliano’s The Ghosts of Versailles (a recording LA Opera will soon be streaming) and a second Grammy for Best Opera Recording for Kurt Weill’s Rise and Fall of the City of Mahagonny. That recording also won the Grammy for Best Classical Recording. That 2007 LA Opera production starred Audra McDonald and Patti LuPone.

When I last interviewed Conlon in 2018, he talked about his desire to be known as much for concert conducting in Los Angeles as he is conducting operas.

“I’ve always tried to split my professional activities 50/50 between symphony and opera. In Los Angeles I’ve been predominantly exposed as an opera conductor. I did conduct the LA Philharmonic for a certain amount of time. But I do not have an orchestra here with which I can do that. We don’t give concerts. I would love us to give concerts. I think the musicians of LA Opera would love to give concerts. Someday if there is the money, we will do it. If Los Angeles residents want to know me as a symphonic conductor, they have to dig around for recordings or come and travel with me. We haven’t done Shostakovich operas. I conduct Shostakovich all the time. I’m obsessed with Shostakovich. That’s also true for Mozart. The fact is it is half my life.”

Wednesday’s conversation should be quite interesting. I know from personal experience how fascinating and intelligent James Conlon is. Since we won’t have an opera productions for some time, I, for one, am looking forward to hearing him share his passion.

Arts and Music Wednesdays will stream live at 2:00 PM EDT and 11:00 AM PDT here. If you missed this as it was happening, it will become available on Viking.Tv on July 9th for viewing at your leisure.

Photo of James Conlon courtesy of Los Angeles Opera and Viking.

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So imagine my surprise when just before leaving his home in Massachusetts to head to Los Angeles for these concerts, he had time to talk about his rather ambitious schedule and the challenges of maintaining it all.

How many major works do you keep actively performance-ready and why so many different works?

It depends. Young performers may not have had the time to work up the kind of repertoire that I have at my age (57). But I am, just as anyone else, subject to the requests of promoters. I may want to play one concerto, say the Ravel, for a whole season, but inevitably I’ll come across instances where it is being played by someone else and I’ll have to change it.

Working up the repertoire is one thing, but keeping them performance-ready is another.

Not really as long as you’ve learned them early – which is the case for almost every one of these pieces. The earlier you learn some of these things, the better you retain them. 

How does playing a piece like the Dvořák Quintet satisfy you in ways that solo recitals or symphonic pieces do not?

Everything satisfies me. I have the luxury at this point in my career to be playing, and able to play without exception, pieces that I really love. The Dvořák is an old friend. It’s one of the five great masterpieces of piano quintets. I enjoy the camaraderie of playing with people I haven’t played with before.

Looking back at the premiere of Grand Pianola Music, composer John Adams said, “it must doubtless have seemed like a smirking truant with a dirty face in need of a severe spanking.” What was your first reaction to the piece?

Nowhere near the indignation people felt at the premiere. It divided a lot of people back then probably because we weren’t ready for it. I think it is a lot of fun. You have to count like hell. It’s excessive in every possible way, but it’s one of these things that’s so much fun other once in a while. I think Adams feels very tenderly towards it – he certainly doesn’t regret it. 

The way Adams wrote that piece requires, as you said, “counting like hell.” What are the main challenges of performing Grand Pinaola Music?

What you have to be aware of is the absolute irregularity of the pulse. This is something you just feel. The very first rehearsal when we did it in San Francisco (2015) I was at sea because of a combination of the hall’s acoustics and I wasn’t really used to this kind of writing. I was hearing everything wrong and I had to drop out and wait until the next obvious cue like a page later. I got the hang of it. Your concentration can’t flag for a second.

What have you learned about the piece since you first performed it?

Having done it once gets you enough to be worried about the second performance. That’s the most valuable lesson. And you don’t have to worry about something that you were worrying about before. You get much more familiar with the grand arc of the piece and you start to hear more and more of what’s going on. The way I’ve been practicing it before this performance is not so much spending time at the piano, but listening to the recording we did and feeling the performance we did. If you study it carefully without actually playing it, half of the re-practicing work is already done.

You told Gramophone in 2017 that “sometimes inspiration, enlightenment, watershed moments, can come from the unlikeliest places.” What were some of those moments that had the most profound impact on you?

It’s always difficult to find an example. But I will say that in practicing and as well as performing in public, you have to welcome accidents and imperfections. Because they can certainly yield revelations. They can lead to breakthroughs. I find that musically perhaps the most significantly helpful kind of practicing is the one that happens away from the keyboard. I often find when I’m taking a walk, that’s when I get all kinds of illumination and things get clearer; when tempi settles, when I perceive more the architecture of the work. That’s when solutions to problems can present themselves.

If one looks at your recordings, you are just as passionate about lesser-known works as you are about the standard repertoire. How do you strike a balance for yourself and by extension your audience?

I think that if I truly love the repertoire, I would think that that enthusiasm and love for it will bleed into the public’s appreciation for it. I have a pretty narrow filter as far as what I think will be interesting to an audience. There’s tons of things I just wouldn’t play. But I try to find things that are really interesting which just captivate me and that usually is a barometer for me. I’m hoping that over the years people will have the impression that they can trust me with the programming I offer. 

Dvořák said, “My own duty as a teacher, is not so much to interpret Beethoven, Wagner or other masters of the past, but to give what encouragement I can to the young musicians of America.” Do you share his views and what’s the best path for you going forward to accomplish that goal?

As far as playing the standard repertoire, we all think we hold the truth. (He lets out a big laugh.) Even if we don’t. If I’m convinced enough about things or certain ways of doing things that will be enough. Perhaps yes. Perhaps not. There’s always a part of education when I’m presenting a recital, but it’s not in a didactic sense. All I’m doing is saying, “Look what you’ve been missing” or “This can be done in another way” or “Look how beautiful this is.” And I have the privilege of presenting it to you.

All photos of Marc-André Hamelin by Sim Canetti-Clarke/Courtesy of the LA Philharmonic

Note:  Hamelin received a Grammy nomination for his recording of Stravinsky’s The Rite of Spring in a two-piano arrangement with Leif Ove Andsnes. Awards will be handed out in February.

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Salvant is doing two shows next week at The Soraya (Valley Performing Arts Center) on April 18 and 19. Seating will be on the stage providing an intimate experience with this one-of-a-kind artist. For those of you who think going to Northridge isn’t worth the effort, let me assure you. It absolutely is to witness Salvant. (If you are in Orange County, she will be performing at the Barclay Center in Irvine on the 20th.)

Salvant clearly relishes legendary performers such as Dinah Washington, Billie Holliday, Ella Fitzgerald and others. But what she possesses is the ability not just to sing a song, but to approach every lyric like the best possible storyteller. And she doesn’t have to do a thing to show what she’s doing. She completely embodies the concept of keeping it simple – as this video from Charles de Gaulle Airport in Paris shows. Imagine being in line waiting for a flight and hearing this:

I’m certainly not the only one who has noticed. She won a Grammy Award in 2016 for her album For One to Love. She was awarded a second Grammy earlier this year for her most recent release, Dreams and Daggers.

Last year Fred Kaplan in The New Yorker said of her performance at the Village Vanguard: “…it was clear right away that the hype was justified. She sang with perfect intonation, elastic rhythm, an operatic range from thick lows to silky highs. She had emotional range, too, inhabiting different personas in the course of a song, sometimes even a phrase—delivering the lyrics in a faithful spirit while also commenting on them, mining them for unexpected drama and wit.”

She also makes interesting choices in material. Though many singers have sung “People,” and “Don’t Rain on My Parade” from Funny Girl, there aren’t too many who have chosen to do “If a Girl Isn’t Pretty.”

If you attended Bill Charlap’s show at the Broad Stage in February, you got a chance to hear Salvant. But these two shows at The Soraya are all hers. And they should be all yours, too. Simply put, I’m mad about the girl. Thankfully Bryan Ferry was, too.

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Rudetsky will ask LuPone questions and accompany her in a selection of songs from across her Broadway career. A career that not only includes Evita, but also Gypsy, Sweeney Todd, Women on the Verge of a Nervous Breakdown, Les Misérables and most recently, War Paint.

Given that LuPone performed “Don’t Cry for Me Argentina” on the Grammy Awards, it would seem as though her feud with composer Andrew Lloyd Webber may be over. If so, perhaps she’ll sing a song from Sunset Boulevard. (ALW chose to have Glenn Close do the role on Broadway even though LuPone had originated the role of Norma Desmond in London.)

If I could put a request in, I’d love to hear her reprise her memorable Act 1 closing number from John Corigliano’s The Ghosts of Versailles. But that is unlikely to happen.

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