Owen will be performing at the Grammy Museum on Monday, October 9th. She follows that with four performances at the McKittrick Hotel in New York beginning on October 11th.

Earlier this week I spoke with Owen about the lusty songs she recorded on Come On & Get It, the role of female empowerment in modern music and we discussed what, if any, difference there is between Judith Owen and Lady J. What follows are excerpts from our conversation that have been edited for length and clarity. To see the full interview, please go to our YouTube channel.

Q: You sing He’s a Tramp on this album. Peggy Lee, who wrote that and other songs for Lady and the Tramp [with Sonny Burke] said, “I try to project not only a song, but a personality.” Your album is released under the name Judith Owen. But on stage, you’re Lady J. How much do the songs that you choose to record and perform reflect Judith Owen? And how much is a preparation for who Lady J is when she performs them?

Very good question, actually. But the truth is it’s all Judith Owen. I was christened Lady J by my trumpet player, Kevin Lewis, his mother. When I did the first ever show at Snug Harbor, New Orleans, right after the last day of recording [this album], she jumped out of a seat after I’d finished singing King Size Papa and screamed, “We love you, Lady J.” The whole place cheered. It was amazing. So my band and everyone else has been calling me Lady J ever since. I think what it refers to is the unapologetic badass woman that I’ve been gestating, that has been hiding inside. 

I always wants to be the consummate entertainer. I want to sing and perform and dance and play the piano and have that stagecraft. Whether it’s my songwriting or whether it’s me covering somebody else, you have to inhabit it. Peggy Lee was absolutely correct. But the truth is, that’s all me. It’s all me finally on display, unapologetically. I love being the front person. I love being that lady J out front, center. Whatever you want to call me, it’s me. 

What inspired you most about this collection of songs, all performed by women, that have innuendo at their core?

What these women were all about, whether they wrote it or not, was about the ownership of it. It was about the fact that they could sing it and deliver it in a way that no one else could. No man would ever get away with this or do this and be that empowered. This was an era where women were meant to be decoration. Nice girls were singing about romance, for God’s sake. These women were not only singing about sex, they were celebrating female sexuality and enjoying it. They had a smirk on their faces. They had their tongues in their cheeks and they were putting it out there that they were woman in control of themselves. 

If people think that sexuality has only just occurred with Megan Thee Stallion and Cardi B, think again ladies. These woman were in control and sexy – out of control sexy. And they didn’t even take it off. I’m bringing my fresh take on this and showing the joy and the sexiness of keeping it on.

I assume singing these songs on stage allows you to bring even more than what you do in a recording studio?

That’s correct. I’m a very visual artist. Performing is my true love. Live performance is what I live for. Everything is recorded live. It’s one take. I believe in that completely and utterly, because I want to keep that seat of the pants feeling that makes great performance.

I’m very proud of the album. But the thing that I love about performing it live is to entertain you. But also to transport you and to leave you breathless with that art form that is rarely seen these days. It’s an old art form and it’s a wonderful art form. If I could spend the rest of my life on stage performing like this, that’s really what I’ve always wanted.

Female self-expression and ownership has changed a lot from the time of the music that you’ve recorded to what’s being released as new music today. Where do you think female self-expression will go vis-a-vis artists in the next ten or 15 years?

Young women are asking me what is the answer? How do they get to that place? You, in your lives, are not here to be pleasers. It’s to please us first and then we can everyone else. I do believe in that strongly. I think that whatever way you look, whatever way you dress, the future is woman. However you present yourself, your music, your gift, your sexuality, is on your own terms. Because when you’re authentic and when your voice is true, people can tell.

I spent a whole career being told why do you talk so much? Why do you think you’re funny? Why do you want to do this, do that? Then you get to a point where it’s look, this is who I am. Do you understand? This is who I am. You like me or you don’t like me, but I can’t do anything about that. It’s not about how other people judge you, What matters is the voice inside you that’s judging yourself. We all know that you get to that point [where] we actually don’t give a shit. That’s the most freeing moment. That is moving forward movement. I really hope that is the future.

Let’s talk about your future. 18 years ago you were Lost and Found [her 2005 album]. Now you’re at a point where you’re saying, come on and get it. What do you feel is the most authentic next step for Judith Owen?

That is unbelievably insightful and I never even thought about it that way. I’m somebody who every single CD, every single album I made, you could tell where I was, who I was, how I was doing, how my mental health was. I was lost. I was found.

Here I am 18 years later after all this time and all these albums at a point where I’m saying to the world grab this life. Just embrace who you are for real. It’s a short life. It’s a short time we’re here. Don’t waste it. If I could have got here faster, I would have. But I couldn’t. So here I am looking forward. These women gave me permission to be my unapologetic self, to reveal the bad ass that was gestating all this time since I was six years old. I kid you not. Moving forward, I’m going to be performing and recording and being that person. 

Since we started with Peggy Lee, I want to end with something else that Peggy Lee said. She said, “I regard singing pretty much like acting. Each song is like playing a different role. I get very involved with my material. I feel a responsibility for the emotion it brings out in the listener.” Do you equate singing with acting? And if so, how does that inform not just how you present yourself today, but how are you going to present yourself in a week or a year or a decade?

Having an overactive imagination, but having a core actor sensibility in me, I do believe that. Being an interpreter is about being an actor. Somebody like Sinatra was so extraordinary in that way. Peggy Lee was so magnificent in that way. You felt like she meant every single word. That’s what I believe in. It’s half acting, half really exposing your true self. Because like any fine actor, you must immerse yourself in the character. You must immerse yourself in the role and you must mean every word that you utter. So if you’re going to do it right, and do it well, you take it to the place inside you where it resonates.

I’m not just singing this song because it’s pretty or lovely or what sounds good or my voice is nice. That’s not what it means to me. I want you to be on this ride with me, to feel what I feel and remember how you’ve been there. She could not be more right. I’m a big believer of this. Again, it’s not incredibly popular, I guess. You don’t see that very much these days, but I believe in it.

To see the full interview with Judith Owen, please go here.

Main Photo: Judith Owen (Courtesy Judith Owen)

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I first met Sandra Bernhard at the post-premiere party for the film Barfly, written by Charles Bukowski. At that time she made regular appearances on the David Letterman Show, was doing stand-up comedy and had launched an acting career with her appearance in Martin Scorsese’s film The King of Comedy.

Two weeks ago I caught up with Bernhard about the state of the world, her role on Pose and her upcoming performance at The Wallis in Beverly Hills of her one-woman show Madness and Mayhem on Friday, October 8th. For those in Palm Springs, she has an appearance tonight at Oscar’s.

Bernhard is someone who has always spoken her mind. We jumped right in when we spoke by phone. It was a free-flowing, thought-provoking and reflective conversation. What follows is most of that conversation which has been edited for length and clarity. This interview includes the use of profanity.

The two-line description on The Wallis website of your show says that you’ll “look back over the madness and mayhem and predict the future.” Do you see this madness and mayhem ever ending or are we in an endless cycle of absurdity without resolution? 

Well, I’m afraid to say I think we’ve really gone down the rabbit hole this time. And I don’t really foresee ever going back to civility or a polite discourse ever again. I think people have really baked themselves in the negativity and the idea that, you know, everybody has the right to their opinion and they know better and all the shit is like, good luck with that.

There are people who spend years studying, whether it’s medicine or law or journalism. And these are people who are tried and true. Are they one hundred percent on target? No, but they have a better chance of breaking down whatever the issue is than you do or I do. I mean, I’ve been performing for forty-five years, so this is what I’m really good at. But I don’t know enough about vaccinations or international policy to put my two cents in. That’s not how it works. But I don’t think people are ever going to look at it rationally again.

Do you have do you have any faith that the American democratic experience is anything other than borderline comatose at this point? 

I don’t think it’s comatose. I think people like us are very passionate about keeping, you know, the country in balance. Thank God everybody got motivated. We have done a little bit this past year where we kind of got ourselves back into the game. Like the abortion debacle down in Texas, but spreading across the country. I think we will persevere – women and the right tone will moderate it. I think that it’s going to take some doing. But now we have to battle the Supreme Court, you know, because they are all twisted and fucked up. So, yeah, a lot of work to do every day. But I think the people who care are in the trenches doing it right. 

During the pandemic a recording of Madness and Mayhem was released on Spotify. How has the show evolved since you recorded it?

There’s a lot of new material that is reflective of what we’ve gone through individually and collectively. 

I would assume that watching or reading the news would have to be a constant source of inspiration. How do you edit down what truly desires commentary and what just irks you and you just have to shrug it off? 

I really try to keep my material more evergreen, even within my experiential aspect of it. The moments that I talk about are more oddly kind of pedestrian. There will be moments in the show that I do get kind of head on about it, but I feel like we’ve been pummeled to the point of exhaustion. And I like to take a more absurdist, you know, approach to whatever’s going on and something that in a way that maybe nobody ever thought of before. And I try to keep my material really sort of a surprise and fresh. So little things that I’ve observed during this period and the bigger things together.

You did an interview with Miriam Schnall for Feminist.com in 2010 and you said “Every time I get on stage, it’s a brand new experience and it’s always a challenging, wonderful opportunity to get deeper into my craft and who I am as a person.” What discoveries have you made about yourself in the eleven years that followed?

I think every day is, you know, sort of a deeper dive into your emotions and psyches and relationships. Ten years ago my daughter was 12 years old. Now she’s 23 and she’s on her own and she’s working in the city and she’s blossomed. The ensuing years were challenging because every kid goes through so much, you know, it’s just you got to be in it to win it. And so when you see your kid come out the other side and they’re really flourishing, it’s really exciting.

I’ve been in my relationship with my girlfriend for 22 years and that keeps evolving. You got to work through your struggles in relationships, you know, romantic relationships. It’s not easy living with somebody day in, day out. And we went through the pandemic together and we actually had a great time. But we really enjoy each other’s company. We cooked. And yeah, it was, you know, of course, sad and a little lonely in some ways. But thank God we have each other. You never know where the road is going to lead. So you just kind of keep powering through and being open to whatever’s there when you take the next exit.

I saw your 1983 appearance in the Comedy Store 10^th Anniversary Special. It occurred to me that Cardi B and Megan Thee Stallion just caught up to you. What are your thoughts about how women owning their sexuality has evolved since you started your career?

Oh, my God. In 1975 that was on the very precipice of the hardcore feminist movement, which kinda was my instruction manual for life. So I took everything I learned and said, “I’m not going to go on stage and pretend that I’m not attractive or some guy has rejected me.” I’m going to break it out and be like a real, true feminist. I’m just going to assume that people think I’m beautiful. That they know I’m in control of my life, my sexuality. That was where I jumped off from. And nobody had ever done that before, certainly not in stand-up comedy.

I just continue to always be on that path. I’ve never been self-deprecating. I’ve never taken cheap shots at myself or other women. You know, it’s like you guys walk the walk or you better talk the talk and vice versa. So I’ve always stayed true to all of that and I’m proud of my work and I’m glad that women are finally feeling liberated. 

Why was it personally important for you to be a part of Pose once you were offered the chance to do so? 

It was like coming full circle of being on the scene at a time when, you know, your friends were dying. And also the whole trans world was just sort of like looked at with a total contempt. And so now to me, like not only to be in a show that’s celebrating those same people, but also like it’s an opportunity to really look back and resolve some of the unfelt emotion and the fallout of what it all meant. As an actor, you know, this is a great opportunity to play a character who was just totally committed to saving people’s lives and putting their own life on the backburner.

Which is interesting for that storyline to come out in the midst of a time when so many people have had to rely on people exactly like the nurse you played.

Isn’t that ironic? People who we knew – AIDS victims – people who would have done anything to have a vaccination. They would have given everything just to be able to live and get better. But, you know, today people seem to think we’ll get through it. And I mean, it’s just selfish. It’s crazy. I don’t want to get didactic when I think we all feel the same way – except the people that are perpetrating the stupidity.

If I did my research properly. I believe you saw Carol Channing when you were eight years old.

Eight years old. Yeah. 

I know she inspired you. And she once said something that seems to me like it would sum up what at least my view of your career. And I’m wondering if it’s also yours. She said “Regret leads to negativity and negativity kills creativity.”

I couldn’t agree more. I mean, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. I’m just happy because I get to keep doing what I do, you know, and occasionally I end up on a TV show or in a film. But I’ve managed to take control of the reins of my career with my life performing – which is hard work; writing and keeping it fresh and going out on the road. It’s not easy, you know, and I mean, maybe I wouldn’t want to do it in ten years, but I still want to do it now.

So I don’t know. I just enjoy my life. I enjoy the quotidian: I like going to the grocery store, I like doing laundry, I like washing dishes. It doesn’t take a lot to make me happy. You know, I love traveling, which I’ve missed terribly. I can’t wait to go back to Europe and have more adventures and see old friends.

The fame thing is a trap. It’s a real trap. And of course, you want to stay out there and let people know you’re still doing your work. And that’s part of, you know, perpetuating your craft and your career. But there’s a very definitive line between needing attention and just letting people know, “Hey, I’m coming to your town, come see me. Remember this? I did that, that was fun.” I have a more carefree attitude about it than a lot of people and I think that’s kept me happier in the long run.

Have you always had that carefree attitude?

No, I haven’t. I used to say I’m disappointed or I didn’t get what I deserved. You know at a certain point I don’t have the energy for it. I do want to keep working and I do want to do more acting. But there’s a lot of talented people out there that you’re competing against. And sometimes you don’t get a part and get what you want and you got to go, “OK, that’s cool, onto the next thing you know.” I’m just like, I’m cool. I’m good with what’s happening and just happy to keep trucking along. 

For tickets to see Sandra Bernhard at The Wallis, please go here.

All photos of Sandra Bernhard/Courtesy Sandra Bernhard and The Wallis

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It could be said that both his compositions and the way Wilkins performs are also way beyond his years. That was my impression when listening to his Blue Note Records debut, Omega, produced by Jason Moran. Amongst the ten tracks on the record are compositions addressing the shooting of Michael Brown in Ferguson; the 1918 lynching of Mary Turner and a four-part suite that addresses an on-again/off-again relationship.

It was also my impression when speaking with him recently by phone about Omega, working with Moran and about the jazz giants on whose shoulders he certainly stands. Here are excerpts from that conversation that have been edited for clarity and length.

You are quoted in the bio from Blue Note as stating that “Ferguson” and “Mary Turner” are both “American traditions in a way.” (Each song has “An American Tradition” as part of its title.) Do you see anything going on in America to indicate that these traditions will soon become relics of history?

I think it is too early to tell. I am an optimist, but I think when we look at history and how things have transpired, the one thing I’m grateful for – and I have a lot of hope in – is I feel my generation of young people, thinkers, artists, activists and intellectuals in my generation and generations surrounding my own, I feel we do have the power to change things and I think we have the wherewithal and mind set to do so. I do have a lot of faith in my generation. It’s going to take a lot of work for things to change.

What role can music, specifically your music, play in motivating personal and substantive change?

First I’ll say that my kind of artistic vision, in a way, is pretty selfish. I write music for myself, for my own pleasure or my own feelings in a way. I’m also writing certain music as research or awareness to certain things. As artists it’s our job to document the times and kind of take heed of what’s going on in the world and comment on it – whether that’s a reaction to it, or against it. I hope this record sounds like a soundtrack for 2020 in a way.

As you recently found out in the August 7th New York Times listing of songs to listen to, the soundtrack of 2020 not only includes your music, but also the Cardi B and Megan Thee Stallion hit song WAP.

(He laughs before responding.) That’s the great thing about what we’re doing. It’s all music and it’s all going in one place. Here’s the thing, some of my friends are buying the record who don’t listen to jazz to support. I end up being in the same playlist as Cardi B and Megan Thee Stallion – the new Kanye. It’s interesting seeing how people kind of consume music. Music is generally consumed while doing something else – usually something mundane. A big thing I wanted to do was create music that radically grabs the listener in ways to stop what they are doing and command their attention.

Before producing Omega, you played with Jason Moran. How did having him produce your album influence the end product?

He was super instrumental. As a band we’d been playing together for 2-3 years, so I didn’t want someone to come in and strong-arm the situation. I trusted him with the music. He acted where he needed to and let us do our thing when we needed to. Jason is an interesting thinker because he’s always thinking about the upside down way of things. It’s a super unique perspective. It was nice to have someone like that in the studio.

Earlier this year I spoke to Jason who told me that young musicians in their 20s have to be aware of things like the environment, mass incarceration, gender equality and more. He said, “I love that because I think people are more awake and that makes the work harder. It doesn’t make it better necessarily, but it makes them learn and their audience grow.” Do you share that philosophy with Jason?

We need to be aware of everything going on to have more vantage points the music. Not just in music. We’re artists, but we’re humans. We’re creative people who have some sort of influence on society. I think it’s important we are always aware of the full spectrum and broaden our vantage point.

Releasing Omega during the Covid pandemic means you can’t tour to support the album and create awareness. How do you feel about the timing of the album’s release?

I wrestle with it. I think that people need to hear it live. The band is a live band. It’s definitely something that should be played live and it would have been nice to have a proper release concert. That was a little selfish of me. Once we were approaching the date, people are hungry for the music right now. Whether that’s social justice or Covid, our duty as artists is to serve the people and meet them where they are. I’m happy with the outpouring of support for the album. I hope it provides some sort of enjoyment and clarity for the times.

You’re from the Philadelphia area and have spoken about the mystique of the John Coltrane House there. Given your faith you seem to share some qualities with Coltrane who said, “My music is the spiritual expression of what I am – my faith, my knowledge, my being…When you see the possibilities of music, you desire to do something really good for people, to help humanity free itself from its hangups…I want to speak to their souls.” Does his thinking reflect the way you think about music yourself?

That quote is very special to me. Trane’s ideology and his views are very much a part of me as an artist and me as a person. I’m really inspired by his pursuit of life. He had a serious amount of humility, compassion and was blessed with spirit as a person. You could tell it from his family, from interviews and from people talking about him. For me it was something I realized early on listening to him play. How could someone play so many notes and play for so long and so intense? Somehow it sounds completely intersected and in servitude to the music. It doesn’t sound self-fulfilling.

I was so inspired, but why is there something missing in my playing? What’s the difference when I play the same amount of notes? It’s a spiritual thing. It’s a humility thing. It took me digging deeper into my spiritual pursuits. I think that was what really inspired me with John Coltrane was he had a similar situation in that our music was at the intersection of black consciousness, identity and spirituality. He was immediately the blueprint for me musically and spiritually. He’s about doing it all. That really inspired me.

Photo of Immanuel Wilkins by Dana Scruggs/Courtesy of Blue Note Records

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