A Strange Loop has opened at the Ahmanson Theatre in Los Angeles where it will play through June 30th. If you haven’t seen A Strange Loop, the musical is about a Black, gay usher (named Usher) working at The Lion King, who writes a musical about a Black, gay usher, working at The Lion King…of course, that’s the easy description.

Jackson did not rest on his laurels. His musical White Girl in Danger ran off-Broadway last spring. His new musical, Teeth, written with Anna K. Jacobs, opened at Playwrights Horizon earlier this year and is transferring to New World Stages this fall.

With A Strange Loop coming to Los Angeles, I knew it would be a challenge to be one of those people asking Jackson questions. I saw the show in New York and loved it, but there were things I wanted to know. Thankfully Jackson agreed to the interview you are about to read.

Of course, what follows are excerpts from our conversation that have been edited for length and clarity. But you can watch the full conversation on the Cultural Attaché YouTube channel.

Q: What has this musical that you’ve given the world taught you over the course of your five year journey, which I know is a much longer journey because you had been working on it for 20 years?

It taught me that persistence is key and that we, as human beings, have a lot more in common than we have not in common. That’s been an interesting sort of lesson to learn each time I encounter the piece out in the world.

While in New York I strongly encouraged a straight couple and their teenage daughter to see A Strange Loop. I wasn’t fully sure how they would respond. They all came out of it loving it because they saw themselves in Usher. Is that the response you hoped for when writing the show?

The show is about a character who is exploring very explicitly his own internal makeup. I feel that when people watch it, they can’t help but do that for themselves. So it’s an exploration of the self. He is a fat, Black gay man. That’s the makeup that he has to work with. That’s not what everybody else’s makeup is necessarily, but they all have whatever their makeup is. 

Why do you think the show has resonated the way it has?

I think because the show is very open and very truthful and honest – sort of to its fault lines. It says things out loud that most people don’t really talk about openly, except maybe with an intimate friend or therapist. I think that it gives people permission to wade into certain territory that they wouldn’t ordinarily do in mixed company. 

And yet they all end up on their feet at the end of the show.

I think Usher’s journey is a really interesting one where he’s so miserable for so much of it and yet, by the end of it, there’s a brief but amazing moment of self-acceptance. I think that’s a cool change to watch. 

You’ve regularly been asked about how autobiographical this show is and I love your response that it’s emotionally autobiographical. Do you think people finally understand that you are not Usher and Usher is not you?

No, I don’t understand that at all. I’ll just keep telling them that until I’m dead in the grave and even beyond then. I’ll keep telling them it’s not autobiographical, but that there’s still many people who won’t believe me.

Why do you think that is? Nobody thinks that. Nobody thinks that Stephen Sondheim is Joanne in Company. 

Right? I mean, I think it’s because there is so much about it that is personal. Usher is, you know, a fat Black gay man with a famous name who’s writing a musical. I am a fat Black gay man with a famous name. I never said that it’s not a personal piece or that I didn’t draw from personal experience. I just said it’s not autobiographical because autobiography is a specific genre. It’s a specific form. That’s not what A Strange Loop is. It’s something stranger, frankly. As much as you want to make it be about me, there’s just too many ways in which it isn’t.

If anything, it’s a self portrait. It’s an attempt to capture a kind of experience from the inside. Something that I began when I was about 23 years old. I’m now 43 years old, so I’m literally not the same person. I have a very different life now than I did then.

For the original Broadway production the entire cast was queer-identifying. Is that something that is part of what you want all productions to embrace? 

I just saw a production in Boston which was the first regional production of it that wasn’t affiliated with the Broadway production. Everyone in the production identifies as Black. But there was one cast member who I believe was like a Puerto Rican or something. Everybody in that production was queer. Not everybody in this production is. Not everybody in the London production was queer either. But they all rose to the task of the character, of the spirit of the piece. I’m really excited, as it continues to be produced, for companies to decide for themselves what the spirit of the piece is, how they’re going to do that, and who are the people who they’re going to task with honoring the spirit of the piece.

I’m not going to say that I want there to be like an all-straight A Strange Loop or anything like that. But I will say that I believe in performance. I believe in acting. I believe in the material. I think there’s more flexibility in how and who can do that. I’m interested in how far people can push it before it becomes something else.

You went on as Usher for three performances in January of 2023. What your perspective being on stage watching a Broadway house see your show, particularly when it got to the point where you’re doing AIDS is God’s Punishment? 

It was a really profound and they were powerful performances for me. I went from having lived the life that I drew from in order to write this piece, to having to then perform the piece and direct that outward. I’m the only person in the history of A Strange Loop who looked at clouds from both sides now. I’d seen it from both vantage points. I felt the loop in both directions. I feel very blessed to have had that opportunity to do that.

Getting to AIDS is God’s Punishment, that song has so many meanings to me, in part because of things that have happened in my life that influenced the writing of it. It was an honor for me to step inside of that and get to literally embody it for those performances. 

I don’t know what your perspective was on stage, but I know sitting in the audience when Usher encourages to clap along, I just said, oh no, no, no, there is no way I’m clapping along to this. Did you see people with hesitation? Did you see a divide, people who clap and people who won’t at all?

My favorite part of A Strange Loop is the moment when everyone has to decide what their relationship to the gospel play is. I clap every single time. Every time I see the show, I clapped. It’s my honor to clap. I love it. Some people start and they stop. Some people never start. Some people look around and are angry that other people are clapping. Some people are confused.

But all of those responses are literally what Usher wants. That’s what it feels like to be him. It’s to have conflicted emotions in this sort of musical fantasia. In this hate-filled but beautifully underscored, beautifully sung gospel moment. That’s what it feels like inside of him. He is directing that outward so that people can experience it because he’s been showing you his impression of it the whole time. But until you’re in it, you’ll never know.

There’s a lyric in Tyler Perry Writes Real Life: “I’m into entertainment that is undercover art.” How much does that ideal guide you whether you were creating A Strange Loop or White Girl in Danger or Teeth?

I’m always pushing for entertainment that’s undercover art. That’s the work that I’ve always liked the best. That’s what inspired me. I looked to this as my guiding light and my guiding star as I was honing my craft and learning how to make the work I wanted to make. But that work is not always going to win the box office.

How much do you want to express yourself in a way that is organic and natural to you as opposed to trying to satisfy algorithms or any other formulas that either computers or executives think are the way to make art work? 

I’m often thinking about that, about how I don’t want to sell out. I want to honor my artistry. But it’s getting a lot harder. The economics of theater are so, so, so, so, so difficult. I’m often wondering, what do I do? Because it’s not really in me to sell out. I spent so many years perfecting the thing that I do that I don’t just have this other instinct in my back pocket. It doesn’t come naturally to me. I guess that means I have to continue to push my little Sisyphean boulder up the hill and see if I can get it to the top, or if it will press me on the way down.

I read the tweet that you posted on April 8th in relation to Jerrod Carmichael’s reality show. You wrote, “Every act of content creation is an act of content destruction. Stop wasting our time. We have less of it to spend than we think.” I love the idea that every act of content creation is an act of content destruction.

Joni Mitchell has this lyric on her 1972 song Electricity that goes, “I’m out of touch with the breakdown of this century.” That’s sort of how I feel in the content era. Everybody’s on their phone. There’s a meme for every emotion that you could possibly feel or not feel. There’s this constant pressure to broadcast every aspect of your life. I have been very guilty of this, so I’m not at all above it, but I do think that everything about our lives is so disposable. And I just hate that.

I never thought that everything was so disposable growing up when I was reading books or watching movies or TV. Maybe it is, but I’m resistant to that. I want the art that I try to make, I want it to last. I want it to mean something to people and to be something that you can go back to and that it can resonate with you beyond just the moment that you watch a two second clip of it online or a meme. I don’t want to be a meme. For good or for ill, that’s what I’ve been trying to do all these years.

Langston Hughes is quoted as saying, “Perhaps the mission of an artist is to interpret beauty to people, the beauty within themselves.” How has the totality of the experience of A Strange Loop allowed you to accept that you have interpreted your own beauty and how will that inspire you moving forward? 

It’s been a real loop roller coaster ride for me because sometimes I would feel like, wow, what a cool thing I’ve made that has shown, as you say, beauty to the world. But then other times I felt like, oh, God, I made something that’s just a vehicle for narcissism and navel gazing. But then I come back to I made something that is a real vehicle for a lot of Black actors to come together, to tell a story of a person trying to find themselves and somewhat succeeding. That feels like a win. So I can only hope that continues. That there’s a will to continue to tell that story and to find artists who want to tell that story as difficult as it is to tell.

To watch the full interview with Michael R. Jackson, please go here.

Main Photo: Michael R. Jackson (Photo by Zack DeZon/Courtesy Center Theatre Group)

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It didn’t take a rocket scientist to see that the Broadway musical The Lion King would be a monster hit when it opened in 1997. It was also clear that this is a tough show to perform. No one would know that better than Keith Bennett who is the Resident Director of the US Tour.

Bennett appeared on Broadway as Banzai, one of the hyenas in the show. The Lion King begins a 31-performance run at the Segerstrom Center for the Arts in Costa Mesa, CA on February 1st. The show then moves to Omaha, Nebraska; Minneapolis, MN; Dayton, OH and more. [You can find the full itinerary here.] Of course, the show continues on Broadway where The Lion King has amassed over 10,250 performances with no signs of stopping anytime soon.

Recently I spoke with Bennett about his work keeping this very precisely designed and choreographed show up to the highest possible standards. We also spoke about the role The Lion King has played in his life, but we started with a conversation about the first Broadway show in which Bennett appeared: Oh Kay! which opened at the Richard Rodgers Theatre on October 16, 1990 with a cast that included a future Tony Award winner.

What follows are excerpts from our conversation with Keith Bennett that have been edited for length and clarity. To see the full interview, please go to our YouTube channel.

Q: Before we start talking about The Lion King, I’m specifically thinking of a date October 16th, 1990. And on that date was the very first preview of Oh Kay! At the Richard Rodgers Theater when you were in a company that included Brian Mitchell, who did not go by Stokes at the time, in only his second show. At that point in your career, did you ever foresee into the future that your life and your career would be so entwined with one particular show?

Everything’s so spontaneous. You never know where you’re going to go. They used to call us gypsies. You go from one show to the next show to the next show. [Producer] David Merrick was behind the show, I thought it would run forever. When you’re young, you think that way. [Oh, Kay!, a revival of a Gershwin musical, ran for 77 performances.]

They used to have this event called Waiting in the Wings. They would get an understudy from each Broadway show and they would have a big night where you would perform and that night I did one of the numbers in the show. I understudied the great Stanley Wayne Mathis, who also took over the role of Bonzai on Broadway in [The Lion King]. I was this number called Fidgety Beat. So I went on that night, I did that number and I got an agent. So I wasn’t looking ahead at what’s going to be in the future. 

As somebody who has been on stage in The Lion King, as Bonzai, how exacting is Julie Taymor’s direction? How much does that require of the cast members and how particular is Garth Fagan’s choreography so that every performance hums the way you probably remember it the first time you saw it? 

The thing about them, it’s changed, too. I call it updating the product. It has evolved and keeps evolving. It keeps changing. A lot of it has gone back to the simplicity of telling the story. The same thing with the dance. The truth is when you look at Garth Fagan’s choreography, it’s not much you can change or alter. They mess around with the kick butt dance somewhat. The same thing with the direction. She comes in now and she updates certain things to make moments more clear. 

Do you really have to make moments so clear when a show’s been running for 25 years? Isn’t there a certain clarity that the audience is already getting?

You want to keep it fresh. When a different performer comes in they have a different take on the role. We just had a lighting situation here in Portland. You maybe move something in a different area of the stage ever so slightly. The work itself, it’s changed somewhat. The truth is we changed some of the dialogue around ever so slightly. And the show has been cut down. We cut down the show for Vegas. And they saw that was a means of like, we can try this with the national tour. 

In the first year or two of the show on Broadway, there were tons of stories about injuries. I’m assuming that technology has shifted and changed so that the costuming or the puppetry isn’t as heavy as it might have been when it first started. What does a performer go through, physically, during eight shows a week of The Lion King? 

The Lion King is tough, number one. You’re dancing with ornaments and equipment on your head. There’s probably not one character in the show that gets a break. Everyone wears something that can be constricting in terms of movement. You find you’re in constant mode of exercise and taking ballet classes because it’s tough. 

It also is not just a costume. I call it equipment that we wear. Eight shows a week is hard on all those dancers. On Broadway they have a raked stage. So my heart goes out to all those dancers. You have to stay in the gym. You have to train. You have to get your rest. But the honest truth is sometimes that’s not enough. We’ve had a lot of injuries. That’s why we have a lot of people coming in and out and people who have to take time off to let the body heal. It’s a hard show. But that’s what the public likes, seeing the costumes and how big they are.

As resident director, Keith Bennett, you have to make sure the show is consistently good night after night after night. How difficult is it to maintain that level of consistency night after night, week after week, town after town?

I’m blessed to have these trained actors that know where to go on stage at what point, and the script. It’s been easy for me. It’s been easy to maintain. There haven’t been too many issues. Of course, when, I call them the big wigs, come out here, they update and change some things around based on Julie’s vision. But other than that, I’ve been blessed to have these guys stick to the script. 

I’m not the type of director, you know, paint by numbers. When I work with them, I believe if you want to get the best out of your actor, it has to be a collaboration, a coming together. A meeting of the minds when you sit down and you’re working on a certain scene and you tell them, all right, let’s sculpt this. Let’s take this thing and sculpt it and see what happens.

I read an interview that Julie Taymor gave the New York Times in 1997, around the time of the show’s opening on Broadway, and she was talking about the puppetry in particular. She said, “I want to see the rough edges. I don’t want it to be slick.” Doesn’t a long-running show, and a show that’s toured the world as many times as The Lion King has, have to be slick to be as successful as it is?

You have to work against that, because that work machine can stifle the creativity. One has to work against that. I think that’s why she comes back, to keep it fresh and maybe change some things around. Here’s the truth though. Most of these actors have their own interpretation. Which takes away from it being just a mechanical machine performance. They have their own way. It’s still defined, but, you have the human element behind it, which takes away from that thing of being just slick. 

I think the long running successes of a show like The Lion King or Phantom of the Opera or Chicago, is that kind of success good for Broadway? Doesn’t that at a certain level rule out any number of shows that could equally be as worthy as those or any other show that’s on Broadway from getting a chance to be seen? 

Put it this way for the actor it has its financial benefits. 

And for the creators. 

And for the creators, but we know the creators are going to be fine. The thing I like about a long-running show like this, you have dancers who now can establish a financial foundation. We’re in this business. We love doing good work, but we do want to eat at the same time.

I was in a show called High Rollers. We were at the Helen Hayes Theater. We closed in three weeks. We have to be honest. That’s the nature of the business. I guess that’s why when I got The Lion King, I was like, I’m going to milk this cow for as long as I can. In the 80s and the 90s, I paid my dues. That’s the only thing I can say. I do love new works coming to Broadway. There’ve been some incredible shows that only lasted for a year. 

Or lasted much less than that. The hottest ticket in New York right now is the first-ever revival of Stephen Sondheim’s Merrily We Roll Along, and the original production in 1981 only ran 16 performances.

And that’s just how it is. I went to a party some years ago.People were like, you get a good government check. That’s what they were saying about The Lion King. They know that show was not going anywhere. I’ve been able to put myself in a different financial situation with my family. I talk to a lot of people they’re like, God, that show has been running a long time. They want to do something different. But for me, the financial benefits outweigh me going for a job. I do hope a lot of shows get more longevity. 

Keith Bennett, you played Richie in A Chorus Line. As you well know, when Paul injures himself late in the show, the question comes up, what do you do when you can’t dance anymore? Clearly, you’ve found an answer for yourself by being involved as long as you have been with The Lion King. But what do you think you’ll do when you can no longer feel the love tonight? When you can no longer wake up in the morning and say I can’t wait to be on this show?

You move on to something else that’s gonna inspire you. You have to do more than one thing. I’ve been able to study acting, singing and dancing. When I left the show on Broadway, my wife and I went back out to LA, and then we moved down to Florida. I got my real estate license.

When you feel that thing is draining from you, that’s when you have to make the decision. Either you try to regroup to find something else that can further involve you in this thing, or you have to say to yourself, I have to move on. The thing with this show directing thing, though, it’s so much to learn. But when that time comes, I just have to make that decision. Trust in God and say, okay, Keith, it’s time for you to go and do something. I’ve done it hundreds of times in my career. What do you do when the show closes? You go and audition for another show.

To see the full interview with Keith Bennett, please go here.

Main Photo: Resident Director Keith Bennett (Photo by Matthew Murphy)

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I’ve seen him in Fire Shut Up In My Bones and MJ The Musical. He’s enormously talented.

Russell is on a two-week break from MJ The Musical so he can play the role of Young Lola in the Hollywood Bowl production of the musical Kinky Boots from July 8th – July 10th. Not bad for a thirteen-year-old, is it?

So how does this young man approach roles that involve molestation (Fire Shut Up In My Bones), depict an enormously popular worldwide superstar like Michael Jackson (even if the show overlooks most of the controversy surrounding him) and now the younger version of a drag queen?

These were just a few of the things I discussed with Russell who wants to be an EGOT (winner of an Emmy, Grammy, Oscar and Tony Award). What follows are excerpts from our conversation that have been edited for length and clarity.

How much do you look at what Wayne Brady is doing in his performance to try to figure out how you can be a believable younger version of who his character grows up to be?

So to be the younger version of Wayne Brady it’s just so amazing. And when I’m acting, I normally play younger versions of these people, so I try to practice their actions and like the way they express and like their movements a lot. 

What do you what do you think this show has to say to people your age?

I think to just be yourself and express it as much as possible, especially during like this time. I think this is a very important show, especially during Pride Month.

Tell me about the boots and the experience of being in them. 

It gives me height, which I love. And it’s just mainly about stretching like the heels and the knees and it’s mainly balance. When it comes to wearing the heels, it’s just practice, practice, practice right now.

You’ve got Jerry Mitchell, who’s the director choreographer since day one of this show. You also have Wayne Brady, who’s been in the show before. Jake Shears has been in the show before. What advice are you getting from them? What are you learning from them about this show and the role of young Lola?

I mainly have been following Wayne Brady’s lead when it comes to this role and how this character expresses in a certain form and how a lot of people express themselves and play in different forms as well. And then coming back to that to myself and also expressing myself as how I want to be. And it might be different. It might be the same, but it’s mainly just the process of switching myself into a different character.

Unlike other shows you’ve done, this whole production gets put together in two weeks and is done. What’s that process like for you? 

For me it’s mainly just thinking straight and really focusing on what I have to do during this time. So when it came to MJ and Fire, we had a bit more time. It was like a month at least. And I had more of a chance to discover the role. When it comes to Kinky Boots, it’s fictional so I have a little bit more freedom. But it’s more focusing on this play and to just get it done and be ready.

What’s the difference for you when you’re playing a real person versus a character that’s been created solely for the show? 

When it comes to playing a fictional character, I do have more a little bit more freedom than playing someone who is a nonfiction character. When it comes to playing real people we have to study them and practice their emotions. When it comes to fiction, it’s kind of like something that I could choose.

Fire Shut Up In My Bones is really intense material. You can make an argument that there is intense material in MJ just by virtue of the controversy around who you are portraying in the show. How do you, at your age, process all of this stuff that you’re being asked to do? 

Normally before I do the show I sit down with a parent or guardian and just think about what do you think about it and talk about it. And that it’s just a play, it’s not real. But the events have been real. I think it’s very serious, but it’s also very emotional and very important.

Are there any of the characters that you’ve played the most like you? 

Oh, probably the most like me has been MJ, but when I was younger, Simba has been like the closest to me.

I’m sure you were happy for Myles Frost when he got the Tony Award. (Best Actor in a Musical for MJ)

I was ecstatic. There is a video of us like going crazy about it. I wanted him to win. But of course, there was some doubt because there were these huge stars: Billy Crystal, Hugh Jackman. So him winning, it was just surreal and it was so exciting.

When I saw you in the show, I saw his understudy, Aramie Payton, who I thought was amazing. I couldn’t imagine Myles being any better than that because I thought the understudy was so good.

I know. That’s what I love. He was amazing to me. And that’s just the understudy. The level that they’re both on is just so good and I’m just so happy that I’m able to work with them.

When you look at what Myles has been able to accomplish or what Will Liverman (Fire) has been able to accomplish, or, you look at Wayne and Jake in this show, what do you see in them that you would like your career to be?

I’m only taking the little things from all those people and put them into my experience and what like level I want to reach.

Where do you want to go from here?

I want to be an EGOT.

So where do you start? What’s the first one to get and how are you going to do it? 

Just, of course, originating a role and just something that I love to do. What I want to do is getting a Tony first. So hopefully that does happen.

And where does opera fit into this?

Hopefully it’s in the Grammy selections because Porgy and Bess did win. So hopefully [Fire] will go into that.

Have they made a recording of Fire? You’ve been in the studio or was it from Live in HD?

Yes. It was a live deal. It was very is very exciting. They had to put mikes on me I think three times. It was just very fun knowing that I’ll be able to be on the opera album.

Do you want to do more opera? 

I do.

There’s nothing you don’t want to do, is there?

No, not really. 

So what’s next is going back into M.J… 

Yeah and hopefully just more Broadway shows and more TV shows or just more movies in general.

One last question for you. When you do Kinky Boots at the Hollywood Bowl you’ll be in front of more people that can fit into a Broadway house for an entire week. And that’s just in one show. What do you have to do as a young actor to just be in the moment and do the show and have fun and not worry about however many people might be there? 

So you know there’s a fourth wall. I think of it as no wall. It’s just the center and back. And it’s mainly just keeping my mind on the show and not what everyone else is thinking outside.

Photo: Walter Russell III (Photo courtesy his Facebook page)

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“There’s just so many more people who can’t even fit on the stage at the Bowl. There’s so many of us that could very easily be there and share that space.” First the Bowl being referenced is the Hollywood Bowl. The “us” refers to Black classical musicians. The person speaking is Stephanie Matthews one of the co-founders to The Re-Collective Orchestra. Along with composer Matt Jones, Matthews co-founded the orchestra in 2018.

The Re-Collective Orchestra will become the first all-Black orchestra to play the Hollywood Bowl on Sunday for Juneteenth: A Global Celebration of Freedom that will also be shown globally on CNN. Thomas Wilkins and Derrick Hodge will serve a conductors. Special guests include Jhené Aiko, Debbie Allen Dance Academy, Lucky Daye, Bell Biv DeVoe, Earth Wind & Fire, Robert Glasper, Mickey Guyton, Anthony Hamilton, Khalid, Chaka Khan, Mary Mary, Killer Mike, Billy Porter, The Roots, Amir Sulaiman and Michelle Williams

Since their founding The Re-Collective Orchestra has recorded with Hans Zimmer music for the new recent of The Lion King and with artists Adele, Chance the Rapper and John Legend.

I recently spoke via Zoom with Matthews about navigating the often-time entrenched world of classical music, who the artists are who make up their orchestra and about what the future might hold for them. What follows are excerpts from our conversation that have been edited for length and clarity. If you want to see the full interview, please go our YouTube channel.

What are the biggest changes of the public’s awareness you’ve seen over the four years since The Re-Collective Orchestra was founded?

I think, honestly, people have been maybe a bit more inquisitive about what diversity really means in American orchestras specifically. There have been numerous conversations about diversity, equity and inclusion at all the conferences, all the panels, all the discussions. For me, personally, it just seems to be a very circular conversation about how to go about finding a solution and how to start moving the needle and really making real change happen. I think that really has jumpstarted a lot of difficult conversations. I don’t know that it has been as transformative in the way that I think it really could be if everyone could really see it. It’s one thing to hear about it and to talk about it and it’s another thing to to witness it and to experience it.

What are your hopes for the message that the in-person and television audience will receive and the awareness that will be built vis-a-vis this Juneteenth concert? 

I think the awareness that Black classically-trained musicians have been here for a very, very long time. We’ve been working in the traditional classical space in the performing arts sector for a very long time. We’ve been graduating from the top music schools and conservatories for a very long time. So this notion that no one can seem to find all of these magical Black people is just tiresome. There’s a lot of ground to cover as far as the diversity aspect and really making sure that we are creating truly equitable workspaces. I think there’s something really valuable about building this space for Black musicians and also to inspire the next generation of creatives to say, you can do something different, too.

Not everyone may be quick to jump on first for that vision or sign on for that vision, but, yes, you have value. And I think that’s something that everyone needs to truly feel and not just a select few. I think shaping that perspective and narrative – and not just for Black musicians – although I think that this is really important for us and for our community to see it as well. Is this a viable option for my kids to pursue? Will my kids be able to support themselves financially and make a true career out of this that is fulfilling and rewarding? These are questions that I think any parent would have.

How much do you think a change in the diversity of management is required for these changes to take place on stages and among the personnel that make up an orchestra? 

That’s a great question. I really feel like there has to be an overhaul of the structure itself. I don’t think it’s just a matter of remove this one person and remove this one person. I think that you really need to overhaul the structure because we see problems from the top down, right, and everywhere in between. Are there checks and balances with the personnel manager and how they’re interfacing with the musicians? What are the protocols for certain instances that people are reporting? And it’s he said versus she said or he said versus he said or she said versus you know what I’m saying? So what is the remedy? And I think that that’s really where we’re going to start seeing real changes happen. Then we have the pipeline question and talking about what’s going on at the music school and conservatory level and pre-college and and access and resources. We’ve got to really overhaul this system.

And The Re-Collective Orchestras has the musicians and artists to do that.

So many of the musicians in in our orchestra are tenured professionals with many of the top American orchestras. We have a great mix of professional full-time orchestral players, some freelance players, some people who tour and work in mainstream music forms and television and film scoring. We’ve all graduated from a lot of the same schools.

So either due to a complete lockout of certain professional opportunities or really just saying, “Hey, I’m going to go where I’m valued,” we’ve kind of taken different pathways. It’s so nice to see how we’re able to converge and have these conversations because I think that’s really what helps problem solve.

It seems as though you are following the adage that if you want something done right you have to do it yourself.

We’re not the only ones doing the work. What makes us a little bit different is we don’t necessarily focus on the traditional classical repertoire. Can we play it? Absolutely. Surely we can. But I think that there’s something to be said about the notion of what Black music is and also the versatility of what it means to be a musician in 2022. Obviously we know that there is a sense of elitism in the classical music industry and what is highbrow art and what is lowbrow art. I just think at this stage so many of us – and I’m not not just talking about Black musicians – but artists and creatives are just tired of living in a box. We want to create art that we love, that we’re inspired by and collaborate with people and artists that we are inspired by. That in turn inspires everyone else.

One of my favorite politicians from the 1970s was Shirley Chisholm. She said, “I don’t measure America by its achievement, but by its potential.” What is the potential America possesses today and what does that potential offer The Re-Collective Orchestra?

I think there is a great amount of potential in this burgeoning younger generation. There’s a lot of energy there. There’s a lot of passion there. I think what we’re starting to see is the uncovering of the establishment as we know it. It’s starting to be challenged in a real way. I would dare say we’re seeing it across the board, not just in the arts sector. And I think that there’s a lot of potential there. I think that any time that we’ve really seen real change it’s been because of the action and the movement from the youth. They have the energy for it and there’s a certain fearlessness and fire behind them. If we can empower them to have the stamina to see this thing through I think we’re going to see a lot of very, very innovative organizations. I think we’re going to see more innovative leadership of this country.

We have this melting pot of cultures and people and experiences and perspectives. I think that’s what makes us really great. If we can somehow empower these young thinkers, young creators and these young innovators to push through some really challenging times, especially coming out of this crazy pandemic and really take advantage of this shift, I’m very hopeful that we will see a much better outcome on the other side. For me that’s the potential that I see and that I’m hoping for.

To watch the full interview with Stephanie Matthews, please go here.

Main Photo: The Re-Collective Orchestra (Courtesy Los Angeles Philharmonic Association)

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I spoke to Miller, who is Canadian, appropriately enough, on Canada Day where he was enjoying some rest and relaxation with his family. We discussed their take on these stories, how technology can be in service of entertainment and a little video he did that found him caught in a landslide with no escape from reality.

I know you grew up with the Kipling stories. How much do the visuals in the show reflect how you saw the stories in your own mind when you first read them?

That’s a good question. I can’t quite remember what I had in my mind because so much is affected by movies and what we see. I saw the movie as a kid and I studied architecture and a lot of this is motivated by certain key images. I had a sense there was something about the cycles of nature and life and I wanted spinning panels and I wanted to be immersed between two screens – front screen and rear screen – and feel the pull. I know from certain sketches, but I don’t recall if that came from childhood images.  For now it’s how can we be just as playful as a novelist with words and filmmakers with pixels. How can we do that on stage with screens and lights and shadows.

What role does architecture play in the story?

In our Jungle Book, Mowgli is a modern day architect and how do you build a city without complete disrespect where we feel we have to dominate nature and tame it. He goes back into his youth to remember the jungles to be a better architect. It’s a way of recognizing that nature has been around a lot longer than we have. We sometimes do things at our own peril. There’s a lot of me in Mowgli. The characters you create become manifestations of a certain part of you.

The role of visuals in theatre has exploded in the last 10-15 years. Have visuals become the most important tools in telling stories now instead of text?

I don’t think so and I hope they never do. I’ve been using media since I started my career 25 years ago and only at the service of the story. If you are doing a play in which video and media don’t do anything but save you money on sets and give you a cool background, it’s not a good idea. 

Having only seen a promo for the show, it appears that Jungle Book shares some of Julie Taymor’s [director of the musical The Lion King] sensibilities. Is she an influence on this show?

I knew her before Lion King. I knew her from the avant garde work and she did pretty revolutionary work on Lion King. To me it was really appealing to, not so much borrow from Julie Taymor, who is using thousands of years of puppetry and masks, but find our own vision with shadow play and masks so you aren’t sure what’s real and what’s not. We’re playing with that in a very spirited way because Mowgli is like that. We’re trying to use the kind of person Mowgli has become.

Prior to Jungle Book you wrote and directed a show based on Jules Verne’s 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea. Both titles are perhaps best known for the Disney film versions. How much is your goal to reacquaint people with the original source material?

It has to be a piece of theatre and you have to celebrate the theatricality of the story. Mowgli’s story of a boy among wolves is so prone to theatricality. It’s what makes it relevant today. Why do we still need to hear this story about balance in the natural world? Because we still don’t live in balance with the natural world and we build cities in contrast to it and it bites us in the ass.

There was a time, many years ago, when you did a parody of Queen’s Bohemian Rhapsody. In the back of your mind were shows like Jungle Book where you ultimately wanted to take your career?

Bohemian Rhapsody was part of MacHomer which had the Simpsons doing Macbeth. It was a tribute to The Simpsons and Shakespeare. Did I know I wanted to create Jungle Book specifically? I wanted to be that combination of entertainer and educator. I wanted to be a multi-disciplinary artist. I wanted to be playful and have a sense of humor about myself and look at the world and reflect it with my own particular lens – which sometimes includes parody. I chose architecture only because it taught me to build something. The same principles apply to a good sketch and making a coherent play like Jungle Book.

Rudyard Kipling said “If history were taught in the form of stories, it would never be forgotten.” If Kipling was telling today’s history, what kind of story would it be?

He would probably look on today as being not as unique as we think it is. We think the world has never seen the likes of such and such politician or story, but if we did learn better from history we’d find it much more cyclical than we think. If Kipling were living here like he did for many years it would be very different than if he were in Russia today. Nonetheless, I think he would have a very intuitive and piercing story about the way power works in the world. I’d love to hear what Kipling would say.

Main Photo by Gary W. Sweetman

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